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Post by jianblaze on Mar 21, 2005 20:59:55 GMT -5
Hey there Ski! It's been a while since I've been around these forums, anyhow I've got a question about cardio! I adhere strictly to the Max-OT principles, including cardio. I've been training weights around 7 in the morning, and I usually work from 11-7 and hit up on Max-OT cardio at 7:30 p.m. However, I'm about to pick up another job, from 3-midnight, and I'm not quite sure how to structure my weight training and cardio sessions. I used to split it because I've read that after an intense weight training session, you shouldn't do cardio because you're already catabolic enough as it is. Hence, the splitting of the two. My question is, how bad is it to do my Max-OT (similar to HIIT) cardio postworkout? Should I just not do it at all? or bite the bullet and do both?
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Post by Tim Wescott on Mar 21, 2005 21:24:32 GMT -5
Good to see ya` around............welcome.
I do all my cardio post-workout, and I see no reason not to, as long as your training isn`t marathon like.
Too many people today act as if 20-30 minutes of walking on a treadmill, or 20 minutes of HIIT cardio, is going to make them disappear..........if you are eating correctly, and have a good post-training meal,I see no problem with doing it after training.
I do 12 sets of heavy chest work,and anywhere from 6-12 sets of abs ,plus a 1/2 hour of cardio,and still get in and out of the gym in 60 minutes or so........not an issue in my book,as long as nutrition is spot-on,and you get enough sleep and rest to recover.
Just my opinion,I`m sure there are people that disagree, but it works OK in my case.
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Post by jianblaze on Mar 22, 2005 12:19:40 GMT -5
Thanks! I'll have to give it a go. I start a new job on Thursday so I'm gonna have to change up my schedule. I guess I'm gonna do weights and then max-ot cardio immediately after. This is my pre and postworkout supplementation program. Pre-Workout 7 a.m. : 1/2 cup oatmeal 1 scoop VP2 (whey isolate) 6 grams BCAA's powder workout 7:45 postworkout 8:30: 6 grams BCAA's, 500 mg ester c, 400 iu's vit E MAX-OT Cardio 8:35 Postcardio 9:00 40 grams DGC (dextrose) 36 grams whey isolate (VP2 of course) Postworkout meal 9:35 a.m: 30 grams of carbs from white rice, 2 egg whites, 1 yolk with a can of tuna (47 grams of protein)
I pretty much try ta stick with the AST-SS protocol for supplementation and nutrition around the time of a workout. It's been working wonders for me lately! Another reason I split cardio and weighttraining is for the metabolic boost I get. I think if you split the two, say 8 hours apart or so, your body becomes a fat burning machine for 16 hours or so, because your upping your metabolic rate twice a day. Does this make any sense? I recall reading about that a while back.
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Post by sapphire on Mar 13, 2006 16:28:52 GMT -5
This is a great thread!! I have not done regular cardio in a loooooong time, years. I am planning on adding 40-45 minutes of cardio 4 days per week, to cut a bit of bf. I have been afraid of losing what muscle mass I have gained, but I am going for it!! I wish I knew more about HIIT, if I wanted to do this, what would I do??
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Post by Tim Wescott on Mar 13, 2006 17:13:11 GMT -5
Here ya` go hun...an article Iwrote that explains my approach to doing HIIT.
My Approach To Doing Cardio For Optimal Results by Tim Wescott
Most bodybuilder`s, fitness enthusiasts, and personal trainer`s, will tell you that the best time to do cardio is early in the morning, on an empy stomach. For some reason, which most of them don`t know the answer to, they will tell you this is the perfect time to facilitate fat burning. I`m here to say they are off base in this approach to losing bodyfat, and I will tell you why. As bodybuilder`s, most of us endeavor to eat 5-6 meals a day, spaced out over three hour intervals.This helps to keep blood sugar levels stable, keeps us in an anabolic state, by maintaining a positive nitrogen balance, aids in better digestion and assimilation, and also helps to keep the waistline smaller, as most of the meals should not be big meals, per se`!
After sleeping all night for 6-8 hours, or whatever amount is required for you personally, the body, upon arising in the morning, is in a very catabolic state.This means a state of negative nitrogen balance,something no bodybuilder wants. To perform cardio at this time, on an empty stomach, creates a further state of catabolism, thus resulting in muscle breakdown, and muscle tissue loss.The exact opposite of what bodybuilding is all about! It`s true that blood sugar levels are low in the morning, but so are amino acids,the building blocks of protein. If you must do cardio in the morning.... no big deal, just make sure to have a protein drink, or a light protein meal, 45-60 minutes before the aerobic session.
Your first priority in the morning, after fasting all night during sleep, should be to feed the body protein and carbs, thus restoring the body to an anabolic state once again. You always want to remain in this anabolic state, if possible, thats why we eat every three hours or so.
In my opinion, the best time to do cardio is after you workout with the iron. Performing your cardio workout after training with the weights, is the most ideal time to burn fat. The reasoning behind this thinking is that during your weight training workout you are using glucose, and stored glycogen, as fuel for energy. Glucose and glycogen are sugars, and sugars are carbs. You want to use carbs as fuel for your training ideally,to sustain you throughout the workout. After you are done training, your glucose and glycogen levels are obviously depleted, thus making this the perfect time to perform your cardio, and to use stored fat as fuel. At this time, if you are on a high protein diet, as most bodybuilder`s are, or should be, the body will burn fat as fuel, to help get you through the cardio session.
Keep the cardio intense and brief, or the body will once again go into a catabolic state and use protein for fuel literally eating your hard earned muscle tissue alive.Doing too much cardio is detrimental. The type of cardio that you perform is up to you, but I would recommend doing 15-20 minutes of "High Intensity Interval Training". Hereafter known as HIIT !! HIIT cardio involves an all out burst of effort for about a minute, followed by a cool down pace, also for a minute or so, or until the heartrate slows down substantionally. As I stated above, 15-20 minutes of HIIT is great and usually enough for most people. I personally wouldn`t go over 30 minutes tops.
One of the advantages of performing HIIT cardio is that it accomplishes more in a shorter time period. Another more important benefit, is that it raises the heart rate and the metabolism. Your metabolism stays elevated long after your cardio session is done.This enables the body to keep on burning more fat just by going through your normal daily routine! I call this effect the "Afterburn" !!
I use an Eliptical Trainer most of the time, and I find by using this particular apparatus, I burn over twice as many calories using HIIT, over more traditional methods I have employed in the past.The Eliptical Trainer also has virtually no impact on the feet, hips, or knees. So there it is, my take on doing AM cardio, and why I think it should not be done on an empty stomach. Try it out and lose some of that excess bodyfat, while retaining your hard earned muscle, you`ll be glad you did !!
TRAIN HARD !!!
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Post by sapphire on Mar 13, 2006 20:12:12 GMT -5
THANK YOU!! I definitely giving this a shot, after lifting.for 20 minutes!! I will let you know how it goes after a month or so.
Thanks again!! ;D
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Post by Tim Wescott on Mar 13, 2006 22:52:42 GMT -5
You`re quite welcome................I`m sure it`ll work well for you.
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Post by sapphire on Mar 17, 2006 16:01:22 GMT -5
Well Tim, I discussed HIIT with Eric and he thinks I should try 2 days HIIT and 2 days moderate cardio... which is what I did this week. I like the HIIT, but I was getting some funny looks from the fat girl on the elyptical next to me, what the &^% is SHE doing? was the look I got. I will see how my body likes it and let you know. Thanks again. ;D
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Post by Tim Wescott on Mar 17, 2006 16:42:18 GMT -5
Cool...........I`m sure you`ll love the results!! #bsteppersmiley3op#
Lately I have been doing cardio on the treadmill,followed by 10 minutes HIIT on the eliptical.
Losing fat but retaining muscle.
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Post by youngblood on Mar 17, 2006 19:14:05 GMT -5
This is a great thread!! I have not done regular cardio in a loooooong time, years. I am planning on adding 40-45 minutes of cardio 4 days per week, to cut a bit of bf. I have been afraid of losing what muscle mass I have gained, but I am going for it!! I wish I knew more about HIIT, if I wanted to do this, what would I do?? HIIT can have numerous variations. But the simplest explanation is that you vary the time you run and the time you walk. Some people do 20sec sprint, 10 sec rest for a specific amount of time. You can also go to a track, run the straightaways, and walk the turns. Be on a treadmill and run full tilt (if your treadmill is fast enough, the ones I use don't go fast enough, nor do they get to speed fast enough) for a minute, and walk/jog for a minute. But if you look like you do in the pics you posted, well, damn your blessed with good genetics!!! One of the few I know like myself that stays lean (I'm around 6-7% BF year round) all the time without cardio....and I also eat whatever I want!
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Post by Tim Wescott on Mar 17, 2006 19:17:34 GMT -5
This is a great thread!! I have not done regular cardio in a loooooong time, years. I am planning on adding 40-45 minutes of cardio 4 days per week, to cut a bit of bf. I have been afraid of losing what muscle mass I have gained, but I am going for it!! I wish I knew more about HIIT, if I wanted to do this, what would I do?? One of the few I know like myself that stays lean (I'm around 6-7% BF year round) all the time without cardio....and I also eat whatever I want! Bastid` !! ;D #getyoutsmiley8xt#
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Post by sapphire on Mar 19, 2006 9:17:34 GMT -5
This is a great thread!! I have not done regular cardio in a loooooong time, years. I am planning on adding 40-45 minutes of cardio 4 days per week, to cut a bit of bf. I have been afraid of losing what muscle mass I have gained, but I am going for it!! I wish I knew more about HIIT, if I wanted to do this, what would I do?? HIIT can have numerous variations. But the simplest explanation is that you vary the time you run and the time you walk. Some people do 20sec sprint, 10 sec rest for a specific amount of time. You can also go to a track, run the straightaways, and walk the turns. Be on a treadmill and run full tilt (if your treadmill is fast enough, the ones I use don't go fast enough, nor do they get to speed fast enough) for a minute, and walk/jog for a minute. But if you look like you do in the pics you posted, well, damn your blessed with good genetics!!! One of the few I know like myself that stays lean (I'm around 6-7% BF year round) all the time without cardio....and I also eat whatever I want! Thanks YB! I am going to do HIIT today again. Yes those pics I posted are very recent, I am lean naturally and very much an ectomorph. I gained 10 pounds of muscle which was very hard for me and I do not want to lose it . BUT I would like to lose a bit more bf to see more of the muscles I have now. I eat a strict diet though.. 6 meals a day, high protein, mod carbs, low fat. I do not eat whatever I want unfortunately.
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Post by mrky03 on Mar 26, 2006 15:49:53 GMT -5
Hello everybody,I'm new to this forum and this is my first post! I just wanted to add that I also use hiit cardio with good results! 16 minutes on the recumbent bike or eliptical machine post workout lately. I have done my cardio early in the morning when I competed last time but like Tim says not on an empty stomach. I always use a pre and post workout protein shake.
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Post by RUBICON19 on Mar 26, 2006 16:57:32 GMT -5
I used to do only HIT cardio, but now its a mix. As the weather gets better I will be going out and hitting sprints a couple days per week. These work the best for me. I am also running for longer distances now. 4 miles or so. Keeps my metabolism high. I can eat much more this way.
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naturalguy
Novice Bodybuilder
Elite Member
Strength & Honor!
Posts: 161
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Post by naturalguy on Mar 28, 2006 6:37:00 GMT -5
I use a mix of HIIT, MaxOT & traditional cardio. I usually alternate them. I also try to rotate machines, one day treadmill, next day eliptical, next day stepmill, next day bike. I think it forces the body to adapt.
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kennyg
Novice Bodybuilder
Posts: 2
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Post by kennyg on Jul 9, 2006 20:59:33 GMT -5
I agree with Tim about doing cardo along with bodybuilding. Low intensity for longer periods of time (40-60minutes) or high intensity for short time frames 20-30 minutes. The cardo would be a supplement to the weights not the other way around. If you are a runner than the reverse would be true.....if you are eating, and sleeping correctly, all you can do is help yourself! kenny
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Post by sicario on Jul 20, 2006 7:43:45 GMT -5
All cardio burns fat. After your carbs are all used up for energy the body will then tap into the fat cells to use them as fuel. I used to do a lot of low-intensity cardio and I find HIIT cardio much better. I lose fat fairly fast,get out of the gym quicker,and burn twice as many calories in half the time. Another benefit is you will continue to burn fat long after the cardio session is over, as it raises the metabolism for hours. Who wants to live in the gym? After a hard workout the last thing I want to do is 45-60 minutes of boring cardio. HIIT cardio is faster ,more intense and takes much less time. I can`t recommend it enough!! I couldn't recommend it enough either Tim. I used to do "traditional" cardio when cutting up, then I read an article by George Turner about HIT cardio and decided to give it a try. Twenty minutes of HIT aerobics a day got me back to my "contest" weight, which I hadn't been able to hit in 17 years!!!!!!!!! It's all that I do now, I think it's the greatest thing to come along since sliced bread!!!!!! I've used it to get down to about 6 or 7 percent BF for the last 3 years (need to stop "blowing up" in the winter though, LOL) and I will NEVER go back to the "traditional" and in my opinion "boring" way. Twenty minutes a day is a piece of "cake" as it were, LOL.
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Post by Tim Wescott on Jul 20, 2006 8:57:55 GMT -5
Sicario,HIIT cardio works wonders as far as fat loss is concerned.......however in my case this year,I am doing a lot of walking on an inclined treadmill,with the occasional HIIT cardio session thrown in here and there on the eliptical machine.
I love HIIT,but it has caused me to lose way too much leg size and legs have always been a weak point,so unfortunately I no longer use it as much because the walking has helped me to retain some leg size during my prep.
I also agree about fat gain in the winter.........never again for me either.
Maybe 10-15 pounds over contest weight maximum.
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Post by masterschamp on Jul 20, 2006 13:54:01 GMT -5
As some of you guys know, I NEVER did cardio as part of my pre-contest prep. Johnny D never believed in it. So for the first time in my competitive career, I decided to incorporate it into this year's pre-contest regimen that I began in May, and it becomes the primary cause for the injury problems I just went through!!!! I am resuming pre-contest training next month, and I really don't think I'm including cardio! High volume, double-split, fast paced workouts, full of supersets and trisets, along with the low carb diet, always got me shredded. Never had a problem holding onto muscle either, like I've seen so many struggle with when doing alot of cardio.
Keith
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Post by Maximum6 on Jul 20, 2006 15:21:20 GMT -5
i always thought working out with weights is intense enough !
especially for an ecto
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