Roundtable discussion about HIT

[donjohnson85]

I watched Mike Mentzer's training video and a seminar he did in Canada. I must say that everything he says is REASONABLE, LOGICAL and RATIONAL. Not having tried it, I would like to ask some of you for your 2 cents. Pros and/or Cons regarding HIT training


Don

[RUBICON19]

I have tried HIT in the past with some success, but not enough to my liking. I go for more of an ABBREVIATED training style, ie. Dorian Yates, Max OT, Mark Dugdale, DC, etc...

[donjohnson85]

Success in terms of size / strength ? Did you give it enough time ? I understand that you have to rest a lot...without training.

[RUBICON19]

donjohnson85 said:

Success in terms of size / strength ? Did you give it enough time ? I understand that you have to rest a lot...without training.

Size and strength

[youngblood]

One problem that I have with HIT, and it has nothing to do with the training itself; Mike doesn't do what he says. He was known for doing 4 sets of this, then doing one all out set- the last being the only set he counted.
Dorian Yates, FLEX magazine and other mags of the like, said he trained HIT style. However, Tom Prince said he watched Dorian train, and Dorian did nine sets for shoulders alone. And also of worthy note, Dorian HIMSELF said he never trained HIT style, unless it was in the magazines and it was being ghost written anyway.

So, with that being said....

I feel HIT is a good PART OF THE EQUATION to use in your training. However, you should never use HIT nor high volume for any length of time! There are too many factors involved in muscle growth that you should use ALL programs, in every way at all times of the year! Some call this Periodization, others may say it's Instinctive Training etc...

HIT is good, but as the end all be all program that Metzner said it was.....no.

[donjohnson85]

youngblood said:

Some call this Periodization, others may say it's Instinctive Training etc...

Mike said a funny thing about instincts involved in bodybuilding. It was something about urinating and defecating on weights. Anyway, with that aside, Mike was an adherent to "Objectivism" and applied it fully to HIT.

About Dorian, he suffered many injuries, one of which ( tricep tear ) led to his retirement. He said that the injuries did not occur due to his training but for not taking enough time to recover. So I guess, with that said, Mike got something right, concerning recivery and training frequency.

Had Dorian listened to his body, he would be the 9x Mr. O



Don

[youngblood]

donjohnson85 said:

About Dorian, he suffered many injuries, one of which ( tricep tear ) led to his retirement. He said that the injuries did not occur due to his training but for not taking enough time to recover. So I guess, with that said, Mike got something right, concerning recivery and training frequency.

Again, I've read that Dorian himself blamed his training too hard with too many set extenders (a spin-off of HIT) too close to a contest. Never heard the part about not resting enough....Dorian had said he used to rest for a certain amount of time in between sessions, but later in his career he would go longer....by listening to his body.
Go figure. Proves one thing: can't believe everything you read!!! ;D

[RUBICON19]

The only thing I can say is that Mike was a genious in a sense that he got everyone to stop training so damn much.

On another note. I have had MUCH more success using progressive training over instinctive training.

[donjohnson85]

Agreed there Randy. (may I call you randy ? I saw that that's your naeme) Mike was kind of Arnold's opposite training philosphy-wise. If one were to consider taking immense quantities of steroids then and only then, in my mind, volume be better than HIT. The body recoveres much faster with roids.

[youngblood]

donjohnson85 said:

If one were to consider taking immense quantities of steroids then and only then, in my mind, volume be better than HIT. The body recoveres much faster with roids.

The last statement is true.

But the first statement, about volume- how much volume is a lot? Two sets? Eight, or 30 sets? I'm completely natural, and I use 8 sets per part, except arms which get 13 per part (biceps, 13 and triceps a separate 13). I'm growing just fine.
Naturals grow, and can continue to lift X amount more of weight, but I think once they hit a certain point on the scale, they'll stagnate until other avenues are explored.
Certain things are different when it comes to how FLEX magazine and the other "tabloids" report them to be. For instance, many people feel that arms should have less training since they're a smaller part. However, Charles Poliquin and all his devotees (I'm one of them....I am biased) have plenty of empirical AND scientific evidence to back the claim that since the arms are smaller body parts, they can actually use MORE training because they recover faster due to their size.

Mike was certainly the one that had people thinking about training LESS; a good thing since Arnold worked himself and others like a horse. But somewhere in the middle, is where you should land on a regular basis, and fluctuate between ALL levels of volume, for every body part.

[donjohnson85]

I was referring to more than how much Mike suggested. ( > 1 set ) So a lot is more than 1 set ,

[youngblood]

Really, do you feel that if you do triple the amount of volume (3 sets) that you would not grow, or that it would be detrimental to your progress?
What if you did this one workout a month with plenty of rest in between each workout?

[donjohnson85]

3 sets to failure that would be kinda dangerous, wouldn't you agree ?

[RUBICON19]

donjohnson85 said:

3 sets to failure that would be kinda dangerous, wouldn't you agree ?

It would not. I normally do between 4-9 sets per BP all to failure.

[youngblood]

donjohnson85 said:

3 sets to failure that would be kinda dangerous, wouldn't you agree ?

Now you have to define failure. Metzner would do 3 full sets, short of failure, then one all out set with drops, negatives etc....And that last set was all he counted as an actual set.
I've done 3 drop sets for the same exercise, even supersetting it with another exercise. All out failure with any angle possible....no rest.
Unless I'm typing from the grave, I wouldn't say it was dangerous in anyway, right? ;D

[donjohnson85]

LOL

[RUBICON19]

So DJ. Whats the verdict? To HIT or not to HIT?

[donjohnson85]

Well Randy, I really think that bodybuilding is about finding the sweetspot for the most part. A little bit of everything but not focusing too much on one extremities (eg. HIT, VOLUME), which are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Thanks for attending this "roundtable".


PS: Next time I'll bring more chairs.


Don

[RUBICON19]

I think our table was more like a triangle..

[donjohnson85]

Ahahaha. The fact is that in my mind, all Mike Mentzer wanted to say is that people are not getting the proper output for their huge input. Nuff said !