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Post by Troyster on Aug 5, 2004 12:50:44 GMT -5
Great stuff Tim. Good post!! Rich, that would be ENTIRELY dependent on your lean body mass to fat ratio... it will vary for each person. Then you have to factor in (which is basically not possible) simple water loss/gain, as Tim pointed out. When I start on my contest diet I get a fat test done at 20 weeks out. It's not the most accurate device (the impedance test), but it gives a good perspective on how long you will need to diet to reach a certain percentage of fat (ridiculously low for competitors ) by losing no more than 2 lbs per week. I use that as my target weight and calculate my calories accordingly, adjusting along the way to fit the loss schedule. Some say you will lose SOME muscle mass while dieting (it's inevitable) and still others say you can actually grow while dieting... I like to think you can do both and thus... you stay the same as what you measured (they cancel each other out). When you get within a few weeks of the show, you'll know if your lean enough (gained mass) or not. You can make a better judgement from there and adjust accordingly. If you're perfectly leaned out and weigh more than anticipated, great and God Bless You ... LMAO, more often than not though, it's the other way around T
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Post by Tim Wescott on Aug 5, 2004 14:23:43 GMT -5
Thanks Troy!!
One thing I`ve found out about bodyweight at contests is ,that at times you see some huge dudes in their sweats and might get a bit intimidated but often when they strip down to posing trunks,FAT !!! ;D
The "smaller" guy`s with the sunken cheeks are the ones to watch out for as they are usually shredded!!
Being cut and at a very low bodyfat % is very deceiving and you create an illusion of size.Guy`s have guessed my weight at 10-15 pounds heavier than it was during a contest at times.
I do beleive than some people can grow into their contest condition and weigh more as they are just more dedicated at this time and their diet is more regimented.Obviously they aren`t going to add 30 pounds to their weight but you can get bigger by changing your body composition as Troy mentioned .
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NWSaint
Novice Bodybuilder
"Just Carvin' It Up" !!!!
Posts: 70
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Post by NWSaint on Aug 20, 2004 13:49:28 GMT -5
My Pre-Contest Principles-by Tim Wescott As far as carb depletion/loading goes I do neither but simply increase complex carbs slightly 3 days out from the show.On water depletion ,I keep water intake high and only stop drinking on the night before the contest at about 10PM.I find that the more you drink,the more you will excretye and you will look fyull ion the day of the show.I have done sodium loading and find it doesn`t do that much for me so I will no longer incorporate it into my plan. Just eat with a slight amount of sodium,or even extra salt to your food throughout the diet,as sodium is only crucial the last 3 days before the show.Cut it 3 days out and you`ll be fine.Stick to chicken breasts during this time as your protein source as eggs and fish contain a lot of sodium. Tim: So lets see here if I got this straight.. start cut'n water '3' days out and turn it off completely btwn 8-10 PM Friday night (Sat. is the day of the show).. but, increase carbs (complex I take it) 3 days out as well as kick out (lose) the sodium.. I think I got'cha here.. I'm '8' days out from my next contest and haven't gained but maybe 1lb total.. LoL.. funny thing is, my fullness is here and staying whereas as last time I think I just went wayyyyyyy to overboard with the cardio and came in severely depleted and over-lean (catabolic state).. trial & error.. But one thing I might also add is that THIS time around I stayed extremely heavy with my training never going over '10' reps and never below '4'.. Not only do I feel stronger than before but like I was sayin' the fullness is there where it wasn't the same time out last contest.. The water is almost 2gals a day.. I hope that isn't over-doing it, but I've been paying close attention to the details this time and figured that a LOT of people mention the neccesity of water and how it helps flush out the bod-water btwn. the skin and muscle tissue.. Ok then, so I increase carbs '3' days out, any advice on what to load up on considering that sodium will be goin' bye-bye ??.. I'm currently at 180lbs dead money and DO NOT wanna lose this fullness, I think it may (definetly) have costed me a spot or two.. but not this time around.. maaaaaaan I wish I had this fullness last contest.. amazing stuff.. what's even more amazing is that i've been dieting for about 29 weeks now and like I told'ja haven't gained a lb. since the last contest.. Get back to me would'ja Ski......thanks bra'................lata'. PS- the last thing in the world I wanna do at this point is Fu*k things up!! "NW"
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Post by Tim Wescott on Aug 21, 2004 5:53:50 GMT -5
Marques,what`s up bro? Your post is dead on the money as far as water,sodium,and carb manipulation goes. On the day of the contest I use yams for carbs and an hour or so before hitting the stage I eat some Reeses Peanut Butter cups,or jelly,or pie filling,just to get the blood sugar up and help to bring out the veins. Don`t drin k anything until after you pose at pre-judging. Good luck,asnd keep us posted as to how you do in the show. Stay focused!!
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NWSaint
Novice Bodybuilder
"Just Carvin' It Up" !!!!
Posts: 70
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Post by NWSaint on Aug 21, 2004 6:11:01 GMT -5
Marques,what`s up bro? Your post is dead on the money as far as water,sodium,and carb manipulation goes. Ohhhhh not much.. I REALLY can't wait to eat though.. I'm gonna go blueberry pancake berzerk the day after the show.. I might end up lookin' like that chick on Willy Wonka, you know, the one that blew up?? LoL!! Ok, what I was refering to Tim was not the day before, but rather the '3' days out .. I really don't like yams when I start gradually loading.. again, I know "no sodium" .. gimee' some other ideas on good carbs to load up on, and just curious, but what kind of increase per day am I looking at ?? or is this a play it by mirror kinda deal ?? Now THIS is gonna be the toughest part of them all.. I think this is where I blew it last time.. I was soooooo friggin' dehydrated from shytloading that I couldn't help but take sips of water and ice tea ALL NIGHT LONG.. it just killed me.. and to make matters worse, the contest is about 3 hours from here up the freeway, and I'm leaving at like 5am ETA 8am.. YIKES!!.. maybe some ice-chips will work... ::sigh:: .. I really really don't wanna fu*k this up..LoL !! As always Tim, thanks for the pos. vibes and support.. I have gained a world of knowledge from ya from here and mayhem.. your a good man with very sound advice and yes i'll keep ya posted.. funny thing is (like I told'ja before) I haven't gained but a pound total since my last contest and get this, I've gained an 1" all the way around, except at the waist, where i've lost another 3/4" .. go figure!!.. I dialed in on my weak spots and am doing everything humanly possible to keep the fullness, the veins are in bigtime, actually, they never went away..LoL.. I've kept my cardio to 30min. sessions (no more 12mile Mtn. Bike rides, that was BIGTIME overkill).. and for some reason this time around I feel more confident, relaxed and a whole lot stronger (squats in the 405 range, Incline Bench at 275, 10 sets of 10 on wide grip pullups).. I took a totally different approach this time as far as the weight training is concerned.. nevermind the light weight for higher reps b.s... that's for fitness competitors (no offense ladies..LoL).. I really do believe the heavy weight training helped keep and increase mass, and the diet is helping me stay shrink wrapped.. so far, so good, a week from today!!... By the power of all this training i'll be ready!!.. talk to ya soon Tim........take care now.........................Ez! Marques aka NWSaint.Stay focused!! [/quote]
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Post by Tim Wescott on Aug 21, 2004 6:42:07 GMT -5
Marques,On the 3 days that you carb load,do not eat too much more than you normally do .You should be carb depleted for 3 days before you load for 3 days so your muscles should fill right up with glycogen.Keep an eye on the mirror at this time as you do not want to eat too many carbs and "spill over" which will cause water to get in between the skin and muscle ,thus making you look smooth.In other words do not do anything drastic like sh*tloading as drastic measures at the last minute can blow all your hard work right out of the water.
Eat enough to fill up ,and stop .Do this daily increasing the amount of carbs you eat every day of the 3 days you carb load.If you look good after the first day,just eat the same amount you did the previous day.Monitor your condition by the mirror.
Personally I think carb loading is overated and just like sh*tloading it can backfire on you screwing up all your hard work dieting.I simply eat less carbs for 3 days ,then slightly increase them just as I would during a carb cycle which is something I always recommend.
Try eating oatmeal(no milk of cours),brown rice,or baked potatoes (plain).Just don`t go overboard as there will be plenty of time to eat after the contest.
As far as water goes,just sip and spit!!
You have too suffer a bit as this is a diet,and certainly is worth a bit of pain for just one final day!!
Remember,all your prep and hard work comes down to just a few minutes on that stage.
I hope some of this helps you bro,good luck!!
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Post by Maximum6 on Aug 21, 2004 8:19:31 GMT -5
When i was carb cycling....I reintroduce BROWN RICE back into my diet on my High days. I basically eat oatmeal in the morning...a serving of brown rice after that..go workout....then another serving of WHITE RICE...and then nothing but salads...3 carb meals on HIGH DAYS. On med days..i just eat the same except no brown rice..replaced it with veggies instead.
then on low days..its just plain oatmeal...and thats my only starch.
Its been working. Though ..when i say veggies..i don't mean salad veggies...i mean carb dense veggies...and in my book they include: Broccoli, Shiitake mushrooms, Water Chestnuts. They aren't starchy..but they pack alot of carbs in certain amounts.
I feel not having that much starch...besides morning breakfast (oatmeal) for the 3 low days as Tim said is a pretty good way to go. Its the best time to pack on the veggies..and heal . Then on the HIGH CARB..which i put on my Workout days .....reintroducing brown rice i think sort of shocks my body...and gets me all buffed up after 3 days without much starch. Then do it again for the next day.
But since i'm bulking right now....i still do the same thing..only i eat more starches from Sushi....after my PWO..which usually consist of protein and veggies before. But if i can't afford any at the moment...Veggies will do.
So eat your Vegetables...and Starches!!!
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NWSaint
Novice Bodybuilder
"Just Carvin' It Up" !!!!
Posts: 70
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Post by NWSaint on Aug 23, 2004 3:00:54 GMT -5
Tim & Maximum6:
Thanks for the advice.. tommorrow is Monday and I reckon that should be the day that I start to deplete considering the contest is on Sat.. and if I start Mon & end it Wed. aft, then start carb loading Wed eve to Friday eve then all should be well.. Tim: what I'm down to right now as far as the carbs are concerened are 1/2 cup of oatmeal a day and that's it!!.. oh, & '2' rice cakes, I have one at each of my breaks at work.. so do I eliminate the oatmeal and rice cakes now ?? and basically be at zero carbs for the next three days ?? or should I just eliminate the rice cakes and replace'm with veggies ??.. I'm already eating like 4 chicken breasts daily, 4 or 5 pro-shakes, 2gals of water, about a pot to a pot and half of coffee, a dozen eggs with only 2 yolks & mushrooms sprinkled with garlic salt (I know, the salt has gotta go soon, but when ?) & 2 to 3 salads daily as well, 2 at my breaks at work and 1 more before I go to bed.. and sometimes a tbsp. of p/b before bed if i'm really hungry.. and there is my daily intake.. boring as all hell, but believe it or not that is what i've been living on since the last contest 9 weeks ago.. I've stayed very strict, and my abs could be a testament of sorts to the strictness i've been holding.. Damn I hate contests so close to each other, LoL, no time to come off and binge..heheheheh..Anywayz, I just got in from work and felt the need to type for a minute, but now I gotta go get with the cardio and then off to bed, and back to work at noon, akkkkkkkkk, I'm goin' crazy!! .. LoL.. I'll catch up with ya soon........thanks for the insight though gents, much much appreciated...................lata'.
"NW"
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Post by Maximum6 on Aug 23, 2004 10:25:08 GMT -5
Hmmm i'm have no REAL experience with the Contest carb loading and carb depleting thing.
But I say Oatmeal is a Staple ....
I also read some guy's nutriton article...i'll post it up later. He had nothing but protein...and some salads all through out the day...then at the LAST MEAL...he eats 1 banana, Sweet Potato, and Oatmeal i believe.
No idea what that is about....or how he doesn't get fat eating carbs that late...but i guess he was really depleted after whole day without carbs.
If you plan on going 0 carbs..or near it....Make sure your veggies ain't Carb Dense. 8oz of broccoli packs 12g of carb....just to let you know. Just to be safe...you should consider : Lettuce, Mushrooms (besides shiitake), Radishes (1oz =1 carb), Bok Choy (really low in carbs...even in 8ozs), Spinach, and water Cress.
These are so low in calories/ carbs don't even weigh them ;D
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Post by Maximum6 on Aug 23, 2004 10:47:34 GMT -5
www.shanepower.com/Yea...this is where i read it...he loads up on carbs on his last meals...on his Hard Gaining Cycle i think...but yea... I've also adjusted my own diet....tell me what you think...i'll post it in my Training journals. Bulk up lean up.
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Post by Tim Wescott on Aug 23, 2004 13:09:07 GMT -5
Tim & Maximum6: Thanks for the advice.. tommorrow is Monday and I reckon that should be the day that I start to deplete considering the contest is on Sat.. and if I start Mon & end it Wed. aft, then start carb loading Wed eve to Friday eve then all should be well.. Tim: what I'm down to right now as far as the carbs are concerened are 1/2 cup of oatmeal a day and that's it!!.. oh, & '2' rice cakes, I have one at each of my breaks at work.. so do I eliminate the oatmeal and rice cakes now ?? and basically be at zero carbs for the next three days ?? or should I just eliminate the rice cakes and replace'm with veggies ??.. I'm already eating like 4 chicken breasts daily, 4 or 5 pro-shakes, 2gals of water, about a pot to a pot and half of coffee, a dozen eggs with only 2 yolks & mushrooms sprinkled with garlic salt (I know, the salt has gotta go soon, but when ?) & 2 to 3 salads daily as well, 2 at my breaks at work and 1 more before I go to bed.. and sometimes a tbsp. of p/b before bed if i'm really hungry.. and there is my daily intake.. boring as all hell, but believe it or not that is what i've been living on since the last contest 9 weeks ago.. I've stayed very strict, and my abs could be a testament of sorts to the strictness i've been holding.. Damn I hate contests so close to each other, LoL, no time to come off and binge..heheheheh..Anywayz, I just got in from work and felt the need to type for a minute, but now I gotta go get with the cardio and then off to bed, and back to work at noon, akkkkkkkkk, I'm goin' crazy!! .. LoL.. I'll catch up with ya soon........thanks for the insight though gents, much much appreciated...................lata'. "NW"Marques, Sorry about the late reply ,I didn`t see your post bro. I would just go with the 1/2 cup of oatmeal and possibly have another 1/2 cup after training and this is the time I would also eat the rice cakes as they are simple carbs. As far as sodium goes ,cut out all sodium and sodium laden foods 3 days out from the show.This means that on Wed. you would cut out almost everything you eat that contains salt/sodium. I cut out all eggs and anything else which contains sodium and I rely on chicken breasts for my protein intake at this point. I might also eat a can or two of tuna but I rinse it thouroughly in a strainer with water before I eat it. Check labels and or a nutrition book or online nutrition database to see which of the foods you are eating contain sodium. If you think you need to go to zero carbs while depleting for the 3 days,by all means,go ahead,it won`t hiurt you for such a short period of time. After depleting ,add in carbs gradually over the next 3 days and cut out all fluid intake at 8 PM on Friday night. Just sip water and spit it ut until after you pose at pre-judging. It`s hard to get all the sodium out of the diet but try as best you can. You do need a little sodium but get it as low as humanly possible. I hope this helps! Stay focused,you`re almost there bro.
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Post by Maximum6 on Aug 23, 2004 13:50:24 GMT -5
Yea...low sodium tuna rules!!
Though i would consider low sodium tuna over chicken breast..as the cheap chicken breast...such as Tyson chicken breast....has a good amount of sodium in it because of the BROTH....the sodium is comparable to a regular can of starkist tuna. Low sodium tuna is the way to go.. if you going all out on low sodium.
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fitmama
Novice Bodybuilder
IFBB Competitor
Posts: 23
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Post by fitmama on Jan 1, 2005 10:42:02 GMT -5
Hey Tim !
Since I´m a newbie here I want to ask you...What do you think of fruits precontest?
best regards, Fitmama
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Post by Tim Wescott on Jan 1, 2005 11:12:48 GMT -5
Hey Tim ! Since I´m a newbie here I want to ask you...What do you think of fruits precontest? best regards, Fitmama Fitmama,welcome to the board!! Personally I drop fruit out of my diet when trying to lose bodyfat ,as they contain a lot of simple sugars. I know people who do still include fruit in their pre-contest diet,but I`m not one of them.
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Post by xenabeachgirl on Feb 8, 2005 15:14:40 GMT -5
Great information, Tim! Sorry it took me so long to get around to reading some of these longer stickied posts.....they're full of useful stuff, whenever I can find the time to sit here and read all of it! ;D
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Post by RUBICON19 on Apr 6, 2005 22:19:17 GMT -5
Tim. What does your last week look like training wise? Do you do a depletion workout? If so. What days?
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Post by Tim Wescott on Apr 6, 2005 22:31:06 GMT -5
Rubicon,I do deplete, and I train just the upperbody on the three carb depletion days................I stop cardio and leg work at a week or so out,and simply increase reps, and/or add a few sets, to try to help speed up the depletion process, before re-introducing carbs for 3 days.
When I carb up,I do not eat excessive carbs, but go by how I look ,usually eating just a bit more than I normally would.
I see no reason to eat 200-300 grams every hour like some people, because during their entire diet thay never ate this many carbs, and doing anything drastic at the last minute, that deviates from your normal plan,is asking for trouble.
I know I exaggerated with the 200-300 grams,but I think excessive carbs are just going to make most people spill over..............especially if the amounts are way more than they normally ate throughout their entire prep.
The depletion for 3 days, is common for me throughout my diet, as I will often go to zero carbs for 3 days at a time if I feel I need it, so it`s nothing drastic, or anything I`m not accustomed to doing.
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Post by RUBICON19 on Apr 7, 2005 9:31:30 GMT -5
Thanks a bunch Tim. The issue I guess that I am having is that my GF is competing two weeks in a row and I have never thought about how to go about that before. Peaking for one show is one thing, but two. The second show is the more important of the two. The Bikini Atlatic. She is planning on stoping regulaer training on Fri. A week and a day out. Doing a depletion workout on Tues, Weds, Thurs. or just weds., Thurs. She really only needs to carb up Thurs eve nad Friday all day. Now the problem is that this will leave her with out any regular training for two weeks up to the second show. Are you following me. I have the hardest time getting accross what I am trying to say on a computer. So sorry. Any help. I dont want any mistakes to sabbotage her winning these two shows. THANKS???
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Post by Tim Wescott on Apr 7, 2005 11:41:30 GMT -5
I have done a lot of back to back shows.........usually a week to two weeks apart.
After here contest on Sat.,I would again hit the gym Sun. through Wed.,remain on my diet,anything I learned about my condition from the first contest,ie. i wasn`t quite tight enough,or retaining too much water,was flat,etc. etc. I would try to adjust with my diet.........although you can`t do too much in a week,you can be a bit tighter and dryer for the next week.
Since she carbed up for the first contest on Sat.,deplete M,T,W,and then load again on Th,and Fri.............she will have to be very careful and provbably won`t need to be as severe during these steps as she was in the first contest...........go by the mirror and adjust accordingly..........if in doubt about anything,lean towards the less is more approach..............too much of either depleting and carbing up could be disastrous........very tricky but if she knows her body and how she wants to look,she can do it if she goes by the mirror and doesn`t go overboard.
This is confusing.........hard to discuss with both contests being so close without making it hard to understand!! ;D
I hope you can decipher what I said!! :Rolling Laugh:
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Post by RUBICON19 on Apr 7, 2005 12:54:36 GMT -5
Thanks Tim. I understand. Should she resume normal training Sun, Mon, Tues, Weds. All except legs??? Or do some sort of a mix??
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