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Post by Intensity on Jul 13, 2005 15:47:06 GMT -5
I know that everyone react differently and that a lot of method can be successful, but i would like to have a friendly debate with you all about the final week of a contest prep:
Carb, (Load? sh*t load? Moderate?) Water (Cut few days before? Cut few hours before? Dont cut it?) Sodium (Load? Cut? Dont change anything?) etc. (potasium? Creatine?)
So even if you are a not a competitor or a trainer… if you have an opinion, please get involve in that discussion!
I'll start first:
If i would have to advise someone that does a show in a couple of days (and didn't had the opportunity to work with him and experiment things before), i would highly recommand to do the less drastics changes possible: No big carbs loading, just slowly increase the amount 2-3 days before.
Same thing with water, no drastic changes, i think that it would be fine just by reducing the amount of water and that stoping completely the water intake would often result in cramping and being flat!
But the more uncertain thing for me is the sodium and potasium intake! For now a moderate sodium and potatsium intake was what worked best for me. I have'nt tried a lot of variation but i experiment that a medium amount was better for me than a low sodium-potasium intake…
So my final words would be: No drastic changes!
That's it for now… i hope i'll have some of your opinions too!
This is just an opinion and i know that it's not the absolute truth, but we are here to discuss… so let discuss ;D
Mo
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Post by Mrbig7 on Jul 14, 2005 8:39:17 GMT -5
Good discussion question, Mo, I'll give you what I did, MANY years ago.. It worked to an extent, but my legs were still a bit smooth. Not sure if I needed to diet longer, or if it was just water retention, or from doing cardio almost all the way up to the show. Too many variables to pin it down. Hopefully I'll know more once I do it again next year! Mon-Tues-Wed before the show I kept diet & water the same as the rest of my 10 weeks diet, but did a full body workout(2 exercises per bodypart-20 to 30 reps each to failure) to deplete my glycogen stores. I did my normal cardio(30 min in am & 30 extra min pm on Mon & Wed) on the bike as well. Thursday,no workout or cardio, but I carbed up every 2 hours on a 3"x3" piece of plain yellow cake(yes, Duncan Hines boxed cake), a baked potato(plain), and a 1/2 cp raisins, along with my normal 3 meals per day(I dieted on about 1700 cal per day divided into 3 meals**the standard 5-6 meals per day wasn't real big at that time***). I also cut my water in half the whole day. Friday, diet was the same, carbing up the same, but water was cut in half again. At 3-4pm, water was cut out completely. The only sodium manipulation I did was drinking distilled water only the last 2 weeks instead of tap water. Saturday was the same as Friday, all the way up to the show... Once again, it seemed to work wonders tightening up everything dramatically, but my legs were still smooth(relatively speaking). I think maybe that had more to do with losing 43 lbs in 10 weeks and being natural, than anything else, though. We'll see how it goes this time!
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Post by RUBICON19 on Jul 15, 2005 15:52:54 GMT -5
I would have to agree with Mo here. I say be ready early and make no drastic changes. You should be ripped, as lean as possible before the last week.
Then :
Carb deplete M, T, W
Depletion workouts M, T, W
Sodium load M, T, W
Small carb load Th, F (Use mirror)
Sodium deplete Th, F
Cut water down on Th.
Cut water down to sips by Fri eve.
Eat balanced on Sat (small meals) (again, use mirror)
Eat some high GI carbs before hitting the stage.
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Post by masterschamp on Jul 16, 2005 4:39:20 GMT -5
I'm ready to step on stage a full 2 weeks before the actual contest date. Those last two weeks are for fine tuning only, in my case. Since I don't go over 30 grams of carbs per day for the last 6-8 weeks of my prep, carb loading is simple-- I just eat a baked potato or a sweet potato with each of my 6 meals W-F before the show. Saturday morning I always have 2 eggs, 4oz.steak, and 2 rice cakes with jam and that's it. As far as water goes, I drink what I want up to Thursday evening, restrict Friday to 1/4 gallon and after 10:00 no water. Saturday morning I have 4 oz. with my meal and that's it!
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Post by RUBICON19 on Jul 16, 2005 10:23:22 GMT -5
I'm ready to step on stage a full 2 weeks before the actual contest date. Those last two weeks are for fine tuning only, in my case. Since I don't go over 30 grams of carbs per day for the last 6-8 weeks of my prep, carb loading is simple-- I just eat a baked potato or a sweet potato with each of my 6 meals W-F before the show. Saturday morning I always have 2 eggs, 4oz.steak, and 2 rice cakes with jam and that's it. As far as water goes, I drink what I want up to Thursday evening, restrict Friday to 1/4 gallon and after 10:00 no water. Saturday morning I have 4 oz. with my meal and that's it! Thats what I'm talki'n about. Right on...
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Post by str8flexed on Jul 17, 2005 1:11:10 GMT -5
depends on if you are on androgens are not, and if you are... which kind
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Post by Intensity on Jul 19, 2005 13:08:51 GMT -5
Thanks for those replies guys!
----- ?? I'm not an expert Layne, what do you mean by that? Is Androgens THE variable to contest prep?
----- Mc, dont you think that you could reduce a bit your protein and increase a bit your carbs at every meal and achieve the same result…in addition to help you having better performances in the gym? What i mean is that at 30g of carbs per day a lot of protein should be use as energie dont you think? I'm looking for your thought on that! Good luck this week end MC!
------ Rubicon, Terry, i share your opinions-recommandations because you also seem to make no drastic change at all! But have you ever really compared your "on stage physique" with your "two days out physique"? Because i always fallowed that water and sodium deplete plan until i realized that i was in better condition (not a big difference but…) one or two days before the show: When the water was still high and the sodium wasn't compeltely cut!
So for now, everyone seems to agree on the "no drastic change" theory. Is there some "sh*t load" user in the house? I want to hear you ;D
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Post by masterschamp on Jul 19, 2005 14:02:28 GMT -5
Mo, I do understand where you are coming from, my friend, but in all honesty, I have never suffered from a lack of energy nor have my training efforts suffered at all when keeping my carbs that low. It's just another one of those examples about the individuality of this sport. PS--- I'm not doing the Master's this year, Mo. My father sufferd through a very severe illness this past year and I was the one keeping things together for my Mom and the rest of the family------ The past two months I've had some of the best training sessions I have ever had, and am looking forward to stepping on stage next year with a full year of preparation for that show in the best shape of my life! I told Ski to win it this year, cause next year it's mine!!
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Post by EBA84 on Jul 19, 2005 15:53:45 GMT -5
The final week is most definitely person dependent. You have to experiment to find what works the best for you. I personally do not do a full out carb depletion. I will lower carbs for 3 days to around 150. It takes me way too long to fill back out if I go any lower. I also take in around 700 each day the first 2 days of my carb up and mabye more the last day if I need it. I just did the NPC Bodyrock and took in about 2300 grams of carbs over 3 days to fill back out.
On the subject of the contest diet. My training partner, for example, diets exactly like Masterchamp. His carbs are extremely low the whole diet. I, on the other hand, have my low days at 200 and my high days are 450. My protein is always at 325 to 350. My fat is less then 35 grams a day. I have found that I need higher carbs over protein to retain muscle mass and increase the fat burning process.
My point is to experiment and find what works best for you.
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Post by hossjob on Jul 19, 2005 16:08:52 GMT -5
Great topic! I'm just sitting back learning from the vets!
My 2 cents though, I wouldn't do anything too drastic. Maybe start a carb load Wed or Thurs and do 1.5-3 times body weight w/ slow burning carbs (I'd use all yams). Saturday, I might have some sugar/sugar load real quick. In the 3 shows I've competed in, 1 time I didn't sugar load at all. 2nd show I didn't in the pre-judge, then before the night show I said "F" it and had 2 snicker bars and it honestly looked like I gained 10 pounds. This last time I followed my advisors plan and it worked very well. Everyone "IS" different though so....
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Post by Intensity on Jul 20, 2005 13:42:52 GMT -5
MC Sorry to hear that. In my mind, family and health are the more important things in life so i hope everything is going fine for you and your family!
EBA84 Very simillar approch for me: i deplete at 100-150g of carbs, diet at approx 150-200g of carbs on low days, keep fat at less than 30g… but…i never tried to carb up that much… maybe i should but i always felt like 700 was to drastic for me but i'll never know until i try it! (for now my biggest carb up was 3 days at approx 550)
Hoss Thank for the info! Trial and error + "sitting back learning from the vets!" are the name of the game ;D And congrats for the great result last weekend!
Mo
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Post by EBA84 on Jul 20, 2005 21:36:14 GMT -5
I used to be the same about raising my carbs. I then wondered why I ended up looking better a day or two after the show. A contest diet is basically a long depletion. Your body can easily suck up that many carbs. I tried something new this year. I am raising my fat as I get closer to my contest. I just finished my first day of carbing up. It went as follows:
5563 calories 710 grams carbs 111 grams fat 431 grams protein
The fat all came from black angus 85% lean beef. I have never filled out this much before on my first carb up day. I usually fill out and then wake up flat again. Hopefully I will still be full tommorrow morning. Tommorrow I will basically do the same and then possibly back off Friday. My prejudging is Friday night so I will judge it by how I look tommorrow. I have a top national level competitor helping me with these few final days. I will keep you posted.
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Post by hossjob on Jul 20, 2005 22:31:44 GMT -5
GOOD LUCK MAN! Hoping for all the best for your show and maek sure to let us know how you are looking tomorrow, Friday and of course how everythign goes Friday/Saturday!
We'll be pulling for you.
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Post by Intensity on Jul 21, 2005 13:46:52 GMT -5
I used to be the same about raising my carbs. I then wondered why I ended up looking better a day or two after the show. A contest diet is basically a long depletion. Your body can easily suck up that many carbs. I tried something new this year. I am raising my fat as I get closer to my contest. I just finished my first day of carbing up. It went as follows: 5563 calories 710 grams carbs 111 grams fat 431 grams protein The fat all came from black angus 85% lean beef. I have never filled out this much before on my first carb up day. I usually fill out and then wake up flat again. Hopefully I will still be full tommorrow morning. Tommorrow I will basically do the same and then possibly back off Friday. My prejudging is Friday night so I will judge it by how I look tommorrow. I have a top national level competitor helping me with these few final days. I will keep you posted. Excellent, you brought the variable FAT into the discussion… I heard a lot of guy talking about eating fat before a contest, but what is the deal with that? Fat cant be transform in glycogen! So why not just eating more calories from carb instead of calories from fat in a loading phase? Good luck this week end… even if i'm pretty sure that you wont need it! Mo
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Post by RUBICON19 on Jul 21, 2005 14:20:04 GMT -5
Fat is a phenomenon
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Post by EBA84 on Jul 21, 2005 15:21:32 GMT -5
Intensity,
Fat loading will not work by itself. You have to be carbed up for it to work. Fat helps keep the muscles full and can give a dryer, harder look. This is the first time I have tried it and I definitely notice I am staying alot fuller.
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Post by hossjob on Jul 21, 2005 18:50:22 GMT -5
Intensity, Fat loading will not work by itself. You have to be carbed up for it to work. Fat helps keep the muscles full and can give a dryer, harder look. This is the first time I have tried it and I definitely notice I am staying alot fuller. Can you elaborate on this? I'm interested as hell in learning about these tactics. What kind of protocol do you follow to carb up properly prior to a fat load and how do you fat load to keep/add to teh fullness you've received frmo the carb up?
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Post by EBA84 on Jul 21, 2005 21:13:30 GMT -5
I started my first day of carb loading by eating 90 grams of carbs every 2 hours. The carbs consisted of mostly white potatoes and some oatmeal thrown in. I have found through trial and error that my body utilizes these 2 types of carbs the best. I ate 6 oz. ground turkey with each of the first 4 meals. I then started the fat at meal 5. I ate 8 oz. of 85% lean beef with this meal. My carbs remained the same. The next 3 meals I ate 6 oz. of the beef. The last meal I switched back to turkey and cut the carbs in half. The one thing the fat will do is slow down the body's absorption rate of the carbs. This is a good thing when carbing up. I will give you a total run down of everything when I am finished with this diet. Remember this is all dependent on my weight and metabolism. This may not work for everyone so I would experiment with it before you decide to try it.
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Post by hossjob on Jul 22, 2005 8:33:05 GMT -5
Oh definitely, just learning different tactics/theories is SO interesting to me. I can't wait to here how it turns out. I LOVE THE NUTRITION aspect of this game!
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Post by Intensity on Jul 22, 2005 14:10:47 GMT -5
I started my first day of carb loading by eating 90 grams of carbs every 2 hours. The carbs consisted of mostly white potatoes and some oatmeal thrown in. I have found through trial and error that my body utilizes these 2 types of carbs the best. I ate 6 oz. ground turkey with each of the first 4 meals. I then started the fat at meal 5. I ate 8 oz. of 85% lean beef with this meal. My carbs remained the same. The next 3 meals I ate 6 oz. of the beef. The last meal I switched back to turkey and cut the carbs in half. The one thing the fat will do is slow down the body's absorption rate of the carbs. This is a good thing when carbing up. I will give you a total run down of everything when I am finished with this diet. Remember this is all dependent on my weight and metabolism. This may not work for everyone so I would experiment with it before you decide to try it. Interesting, very intersting… but if the problem is that carbs get absorbed to fast… why dont you just carb up like crazy for a couple of hours before the show? Because the main reason for carb loading for 2 or 3 days is to have enough time to fill in (if we think that carbs wont be absorbed fast enough to fill in in a couple of hours) Cant wait to have more info on that! PS: Hoss, i'm like you... i really like this kind of discussion!Long life to that kind of debate ;D Mo
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