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Post by RUBICON19 on Jun 27, 2005 11:06:36 GMT -5
I was at the Miami, Musclemania Superbody this weekend. Holy "S". Some of these guys are HUGE!!!! Is this show legitimaly natural? If so we are all doing something wrong.
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Post by masterschamp on Jun 28, 2005 11:28:50 GMT -5
I never believe ANY show is legitimely natural! That's why I have never considered doing a "drug tested " show. I know there are some organizations out there who try their best, but do I believe every contestant at any drug tested show is truly drug free-- ummmm,well,--- NO! Just my opinion.
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Post by RUBICON19 on Jun 28, 2005 12:52:49 GMT -5
But here, the majority did not look natural at all!!!!
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Post by GerryT on Jun 28, 2005 13:46:47 GMT -5
Likemc, always have my doubts. The tested shows have different ways of testing (polygraph, urinalysis, etc.) and there is no consistency or stringency in testing procedures.
Some shows are only random tested, meaning that 5 or 6 are selected as a sample. But of course not knowing who will be selected is supposed to keep everyone honest.
There are ways of getting around tests, if you are really determined enough. But I respect anyone who does compete naturally. The dedication is inspirational.
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Post by Intensity on Jun 28, 2005 14:06:15 GMT -5
It can be a great debate masterchamp! Even if those "natural" federations are not perfect, i think that it's a great idea for a natural bodybuilder to register in those shows! Why?
1) Because at least, if those shows are serious about the procedures, maybe it will discourage somes non-natural atheles. I prefer to compete again 1% of non-natural atheles rather than 85%. I respect all kind of bodybyuilder, but i hope that some non-natural guys will have enough respect to fallow this rule.
2) By encouraging those serious natural federations, we can hope to change things and establish a real differentiation between natural shows and non-natural show
3) By register in natural shows, it's the only way we can complain that the guy who beats us was not natural ;D
4) It's a way to express our personnal value
What is you though about that?
Mo
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Post by masterschamp on Jun 28, 2005 14:25:21 GMT -5
Mo,
I think it would be a great idea ,also, IF the rest of the competitors shared your character, integrity, and honesty. As Gerry said, testing procedures ar not NEARLY enough consistent OR accurate. And, having been around long enough,(to the point of even listening in on several "natural" competitors talk about how they planned to beat the test, and having known so-called naturals who were anything but), I just feel that the genuine "naturals" as yourself are in more of a minority at competition time than you might want to think, so I'm not quite sure how many non-natural athletes are truly discouraged from entering. I also appreciate your point about making a statement--BUT-- as a man, if you look me in the eye,Mo, and tell me you're natural, then I'm gonna take your word at that! You don't have to prove a thing to anyone by the choice of contests you enter in. I respect you, Mo, for who you are -- a terrific BODYBUILDER.
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Post by Intensity on Jun 28, 2005 20:09:58 GMT -5
Masterchamp, first of all, thanks for your words about my honesty. This is something very important in my life and i truly hope that people will remember me as an honest person. I also felt great reading that you seem to understand my intense desire of having TRUE narural shows. But dont get me wrong, i respect natural AND non-natural bodybuilder! They both work hard and deserved attention from fellows bodybuilder.. but it's just that i hate the fact that some bodybuilder would try to cheat and lie by register in a natural contest! Hey, on the juice you are in a "Ferrari"... so let those natural bodybuilders in "roller blade" ;D doing the race again each other! And, having been around long enough,(to the point of even listening in on several "natural" competitors talk about how they planned to beat the test, and having known so-called naturals who were anything but), I just feel that the genuine "naturals" as yourself are in more of a minority at competition time than you might want to think, And that kind of situation Master is what make me think about NOT COMPETING ANYMORE! I have been frustrated by that kind of story to often! I know that i must compete for myself and bla bla bla ;D but admit that it's sad to hear that some people lack that much respect for others... As Gerry said, testing procedures ar not NEARLY enough consistent OR accurate. I know... but at least i try to comfort myself by thinking that maybe it's even worst in other sports... Ok let finish that post on a positive note ;D : Bodybuilding is great... competing or not... natural or not... you must be one of the most dedicated athelete on earth to achieve great results and THAT is something that make me so proud of being one! PS: This is an emotive subject for me so i wrote very fast... so maybe my english grammar wasnt very good, sorry for that ;D pas toujours facile un nouveau language! ;D  Mo |
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Post by masterschamp on Jun 28, 2005 21:13:59 GMT -5
Your grammar was fine, Mo! Completely understood!! And don't even consider not competing-- frustration is a part of this sport, whether you are drug free or not. You are much too good at this not to compete. And no matter how much you have heard it, it still is true that your only real competition is within yourself. I never concern myself with who, or how many, I might be competing against--- it's all about me being better than I was the last time out. When you can do that, you win, regardless of the actual placings. I'll repeat what I said in my earlier reply to you, Mo. You are a terrific BODYBUILDER, period. No need to put "natural" in front of the word bodybuilder. You've earned the right with your dedication to the sport and your level of developement to stand with anyone.
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Post by Mrbig7 on Jun 29, 2005 7:38:18 GMT -5
GREAT discussion, fellas! Mo & MC, I share the same sentiment. I feel it's TRULY a shame how SOME claim to be natural, but truly aren't.. Is a trophy worth that much that you would have to lie about your status, just to win? That would be such a hollow victory and wouldn't mean a thing(at least in MY opinion). On the other hand, there are A LOT of competitors, natural or not, that ALWAYS seem willing to blame a poor placing or a sub-standard physique on the fact that someone else is "juicing" or has access to better drugs. Even though I don't take anything & never have, I have many friends that do. It still frustrates me to no end that people RARELY attribute someone being better than they are to work ethic, persistence, years in training, or even just better genetics. There is always going to be someone better, and it doesn't have to do with just "better drugs". Bodybuilding is such an INDIVIDUAL sport that everyone has there OWN challenges, drug-free or not. The older I get, the more I LOVE being involved in this sport in one way or another because WE determine our OWN results! As long as you know in your heart you are giving everything you've got to improve, placings & other people's opinions don't really matter. EVERYONE in this sport works hard, natural or not. I commend everyone involved for challenging themselves & doing their best to improve. It would just be nice if everyone kept their HONESTY & INTEGRITY along the way! I'll get down now....... |
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Post by RUBICON19 on Jun 29, 2005 9:40:07 GMT -5
I recently spoke with a friend of a competitor who tested positive in a natural show after taking the over all. I asked why he would compete in a natty show while using. He said because he would have gotten crushed at a non tested show!!!! Go figure!! The light heavy winner of the same show was also busted. Compete on your own playing field!!! Its just NUTS!!!!
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Post by Intensity on Jun 29, 2005 11:25:57 GMT -5
Masterchamp your comments are wise... so i think that i'll take some notes of what you said and try to become as wise as you are! I dont know you age... but maybe wisdom comes with time ;D
"You've earned the right with your dedication to the sport and your level of developement to stand with anyone" Wow that means a looooot to me, it's one of the best bodybuilding compliment i ever heard, thank you!
Terry, like you said, that's a great discussion subject... and people in here are respecfull so it kepts the debate (discussion) even more interseting! That's why i love that board that much!
Rubicon, after reading your post i was happy that those guys were busted... but after reflexion, you are right... it's sad to see that kind of attitude... and it's even more sad to think (know) that a lot of guys are doing the same... but beat the test...
Oh and an anecdote: One of my former training partner decided to use steroid... so even if it was not something that i enjoyed (it should have appears in my face at that time ;D) i didn't complain because this is his own decision. But few weeks after his monstuous muscle gains he told me about his intention of competing in a natural show... eeee i know i said that honesty is important for me but not THAT MUCH honesty ;D Let just say that i wasn't the happiest in the gym... Anyway i finally calm down by remembering the true important things in life for me: Health, familly, friends, etc. (More than that... the stress would have make me loose too much muscle mass ;D ) and it finally end that he decided not to competed!
Mo
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Post by RUBICON19 on Jun 29, 2005 12:31:37 GMT -5
I just do not understand it!! Why not compete with others that do the same. Its like racing with nitrous against a 4 cylinder car when it is illegal. What is the point? There was a woman who actually took the subway to try to win the Boston Marathon!!! Its SAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  |
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Post by bodyfx on Jun 29, 2005 14:32:52 GMT -5
There are some organizations that do a better job of testing than others...Musclemania is NOT one of them. I did the Musclemania in California twice, and although I did well, I saw more cases of gyno, acne, and GH gut there than I did at some non-tested shows. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt when they claim to be natural, as I get accused of "using" myself, but rarely when you go to a legit drug-tested show do you see more than but a handful of truly ripped and muscular athletes in the whole thing...but at Musclemania you see a dozen in each class. Also, when I did MM, there were about 150 athletes in the whole show and they picked about 10 to be randomly tested...that is bull.
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Post by RUBICON19 on Jun 29, 2005 14:45:30 GMT -5
About 10% of the competitors in Miami looked clean.
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Post by GerryT on Jun 29, 2005 16:49:34 GMT -5
This is what is so good about this forum. Terrific and knowledgable people providing intelligent and thought provoking discussion.
bodyfx is absolutely right. I have also seen tested shows where competitors had obvious gyno and distensions.
Why pretend? Be what you are. You guys are terrific athletes and people in any case.
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Post by ntrllftr on Jun 29, 2005 18:55:19 GMT -5
One show I have done 3 times is tested. It took no rocket scientist to know who placed the top five. After the prejudging you were told to take the urin test if your number called, if it was not called you knew you did not place.
Each and every time I did the show that was the case.
I don't know about you but I like to be surprised. It just takes the fun out of it I think.
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kitten
Novice Bodybuilder
Posts: 24
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Post by kitten on Jul 5, 2005 8:56:02 GMT -5
I was at the show in Miami as well. I did notice an obvious use of GH in the men, and steroids in the woman. But there was one kid that was disqualified, but they let him compete in the model search??? wierd.
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Post by RUBICON19 on Jul 5, 2005 11:15:58 GMT -5
I was at the show in Miami as well. I did notice an obvious use of GH in the men, and steroids in the woman. But there was one kid that was disqualified, but they let him compete in the model search??? wierd. Where you competing or just hangi'n??? |
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kitten
Novice Bodybuilder
Posts: 24
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Post by kitten on Jul 5, 2005 11:37:56 GMT -5
I was just hangin....first time in a looong time I've gotten to go to a show and relax and watch!
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kitten
Novice Bodybuilder
Posts: 24
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Post by kitten on Jul 5, 2005 11:42:45 GMT -5
Oh and one other thing about FAP...They don't drug test any figure/fitness girls....But they do drug test the BBs for steriods and clen according to their application......So BBs get tested for clen and fitness/figure girls don't?  They also had about 100 figure girls and over 30 fitness girl and I'm sure they were all clean as a whistle......... |
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They also had about 100 figure girls and over 30 fitness girl and I'm sure they were all clean as a whistle.........