Diet Assistance

[fit]

Here goes-

I'm now 41... I've never had a fast metabolism, really. Was a good distance runner growing up but no power/speed. Lots of slow twitch

"skinny-fat ectomorph" if you know what I mean...

Got really skinny as a teen through 20's. Used to be able to just drop the junk, walk a little and lose weight.

Now I need to eat clean, exercise intensely and still the fat loss is quite slow. Was 230 about 5 years ago. Currently 175 at 6'2"

I purchased a cut plan a couple of years ago from a trainer who's somewhat known... Worked pretty well, got pretty lean... but in hindsight, all the cardio I was doing shoulda leaned anybody out (45 minutes fasted AM cardio daily and lifting several evenings).

I've sinced gotten much smarter; talked to many pros, studied the net... from the comments in my journal, many of you agree that my eating looks "very clean".

I generally keep thing low carb... maybe I've done so for too long? dunno. I've upped the carbs but still am around 60 on low days (used to go as low as trace carbs only) and no higher than around 180-200. I've cycled, tried Tim's cycling suggestions, etc. Did the "cut" diet for a while...

As far as calories and macros... this is where I could use some fine tuning. From what I've read, many of you would be shredded in the amount of time I've lost a % or two. Seems that way... now I realize genetics is part but I don't want to cop out on that. I know I can figure this out. I also realize that this would be easier if I had much more lean mass. So I've spent a fair amount of time "culking" too.

I usually keep carbs mostly around workouts as you'll see in my journal. Otherwise it's mostly fat/protein meals (plus fibrous veg, etc. The starchy carbs are always oats, whole grains like quinoa, sweet potato... rarely bread except on a day off/cheat meal. I used to do waxy maize PWO... liked that I was rarely soer in days followingg WM.

So I'm not sure of the question here... just looking to tune in this more tightly and assure that I am eating optimally.

Macros? Calories?

Looking back my macros have hovered around 50p/10c/40f on very low carb days to a more routine 40-40-20 or 50-30-20

By my calculations, 41 yrs, 175lbs 6'2"... maintenance cals should be about 2800... about 2300 for cutting.... lately I cut cals down as low as 1600 for a stretch and actually moved the needle in terma of leaning out but I fear losing lean mass. Thanks to timing and PRRS I've been ably to stay around 175... gaining lean, losing fat.. but again, it could be better.

OK.. I'm rambling... is any of this background any help?

[fit]

Here's todays diet. It's a lifting day (legs)

615a 4 eggwhites, 2 eggs, 40g oats 388cals, 36g p 30g c 12.5g f

9a 4oz chicken, 1/2c greens 207cals, 36g p 4g c 4g f

Noon 4oz chicken, 1/2c mixed greens, 1/2c black beans 312cals, 43g p 27g c 4.5g f

3p 4oz chicken, 1/2c black beans, 1/2c amaranth, 1/2c quinoa 532cals, 51g p 65.5g c 8g f

~5p preworkout: 10g X-tend w/2 scoops vasocharge/Workout: 30g X-tend (totals about 120 cals, 31g protein)

~630p 80g oats, 2 scoops WPI 480cals, 56g p 58g c 6g f

8p 1egg and 5 whites 175cals, 25.5g p 2.5g c 5g f

Total calories: 2217
50p 34c 16f

[mrbeefy]

Fit,

Just wanted to comment that it's good to see quinoa included in your diet. Great stuff but you don't see too much of it these days.
Keep up the great work.

mrbeefy

[RUBICON19]

So, what is the goal?

[QuietBob]

rubicon19 said:

So, what is the goal?

Second that.
Sounds like you're on track; just need to know what you're striving for and where/if you're falling short.

Bob

[beckie]

Am I correct in suggesting you are looking to maintain your current leanness and maybe put on a little muscle? I have the same body type as you-gain muscle reasonably but lose fat slower than a snail....

[fit]

That's right, Beckie. Ultimately I want to lean out more though I am very close now.

So I guess my goal would be "culking". SLow and steady lean mass gain while avoiding losing the leanness. Routinely nailing that "sweet spot".

I've been able to keep my weight around 175... obviously I don't need to way less at 6'2"

I don't care if I end up at 195 etc as long as I'm leaner in the end.

[Intensity]

First of all Chris, I'd like to give you props for giving us all these details and precisions. I mean, as you know there is NO one size fit all answer so knowing your current situation (as best as we can considering the Internet limitations) is truly what will allow us to give you successful advices.

In my opinion, there is 2 major aspects that we need to cover in order to help you: Training and diet.

Training
Chirs, are your workouts truly intense? I know almost 100% of people would say Yes, but really, are they more intense than everyone's in your gym? I didnt chose Intensity as my screen name for nothing… I believe that for a natural athelte this is the #1 key in the gym! I mean, do you truly reach failure? Not only stoping your set when you feel it's really tough, but doing it when you TRY to do the rep, but simply COULDNT. (For that, i suggest using exercises which allows you not to get stuck under a bar, like Smith machine instead of regular bench press) But doing only that would be too easy… you also need to do that WHILE making sure you do each rep with an optimal quality! Intensity could be dangerous… but if you keep a perfect execution on every rep, you wont risk injuries more than you would at a low intensity. So control each rep… but go to war on every set as if your life would depend on it.

Diet
First, your diet is great! You eat the right food and you know how to count it… which is a huge step in my opinion. So what's wrong? If your goal is to become LEANER, I would suggest keep cycling your carbs (1 high, 2 moderate, 1 low) but while SLOWLY reducing the weekly average you have everytime your bodyweigh is not decreasing. Here is an example:

So from what you said, you curently eat something like 275g protein and 185g carbs (keep the fat the same) and your bodyweight remainds the same...

So next week (Week 1), keep an average of 260-290g of protein and try to have a carbs intake average of 175 (High day approx 225g, moderate 175g and low 125g).

Week 2, if your bodyweight is decreasing (0,5 lbs and more) keep the same diet… if not, have your carbs intake average down to 165g ( High approx 215g, moderate 165g, low 115g)

Keep going like that for the fallowing weeks. After a while (10-14 weeks) you'll have to switch strategy for a couple of weeks… but at that point, it's going to be another question in the ask the experts section :-)

Good luck, and feel free to ask if there is any questions about it!

Mo

[fit]

Intensity,

Thanks so much for the resopnse. You called me on my own "intensity". I think I have to answer the quetsion <no> not enough. Just last week, as I moved into the rep-range week of my current routine. I began really ratcheting down on time between sets and "true failure". I even began carrying a stopwatch to keep me honest on time AND focused (rather than being distracted by whatever...) so I tune into the sets and reps and breaks. I still can be better, much better at this.

Legs tonight and I am really going to take this to heart. Even if I miss reps, I'll kep the heart pounding. Ditto with post-lifting cardio. perhaps it's time to get back into some interval work.

As to diet, thanks. Looks like I should start getting better balance and planning as regards the carbs. I've been rather irregular. So looks like I'll count today as the "moderate" carb day at ~185, tomorrow at 225, Thursay at 175, Friday at 125g yeah?

Much appreciated!

[Tim Wescott]

I`ll add more to this later,but first off more protein is needed in a big way.

On your egg/eggwhite meals,you should be eating more of both,totalling at leaat 30 gms. or more per meal........opting for eggwhites is best if thinking calories,but I don`t recommend counting calories anyway.

10 eggwhites
or
8 eggwhites and 1- 2 whole eggs

Count protein and carbs and eat minimal fats instead.

Drink more water...always a plus.

At 175 pounds bodyweight,eat 175 grams of protein daily as a minimum amount.........eat 200-250 at times,usually on more demanding days.

Keep cycling carbs.........works without a doubt.

Cut out fats entirely..........we ghet more than enough fat in our diets while even eating ultra-clean.

I would keep in natty peanut butter though as it is a staple food in my opinion,or at least it should be.

Do not count protein from oats or veggies.....not necessary and takes away from your daily total.

Count whey and animal products only.

6 grams of protein per ounce of chicken breast,so 4 oz. would equal only 24 gms.

I would eat at least 5-6 oz..........very low in cals but will help to increase protein.

Might want to try more volume in workouts or alternate high and low volume weekly.

Train harder........we all think we train hard and we do,but we can all be more focused all of the time.

Hope some of this helps Chris.

[mrky03]

This is what works well for me......

Off season diet- low to moderate carbs morning through afternoon.

I take in most of my daily carb count post workout. For instance I won't eat anything but maybe 1/2 cup oats at breakfast and maybe another 1/2 cup with my tuna about three hours later. That comes out to about 60g carbs. Pre and post workout I take in about 32g carbs with my whey and creatine then about an hour after I train I eat my largest carb meal of the day, lean protein and usually baked potatoes and veggies. So I'll probably eat around 150-200g carbs post workout in the off season unless I start to get too fat. Its really like eating a low carb diet for most of the day then carbing up post workout to replenish your glcogen stores.

Pre contest is different, now I'll go 3 days in a row on less than 75g carbs most of the time more like 30g. Then on day 4 I have a high carb day when I'll take in starchy carbs, potatoes, rice , oats etc. I don't really count calories I just pay attention to my hunger signals and eat accordingly. I monitor my bdwt. and conditioning closely and make adjustments if I need to.

I like what Charles Poliquin said in a recent artical, after you get lean you can eat more carbs, but you have to earn them.
I've found this to be true, once I get super lean I can eat almost as much clean food as I want. Once I strart eating junk food the fat gain comes quickly!

Everything I read points to eating post workout carbs/protein. Aparently all the carbs go to replenishing your muscle glycogen at this time and none are stored as fat.

[beckie]

you will also have to learn to watch what foods act as triggers for fat gain-for me its bread so I eat very minimal or I put an inch on round my middle in no time. Everyone has different reactions to carbs but I do agree with the need to cycle them. What I do is eat higher carbs on training days ndn less on non training days,because my body simply doesn't need them.

[fit]

All very helpful and much "food for thought!" Thanks all- you are ALL the BEST.

[fit]

I was double checking my macros. Tim- you're saying 6g per ounce of chicken. I double-checked- it's 6g per ounce RAW. What I've been tracking is COOKED ounces which, according to my database/tool and also nutritiondata.com, is about 9g per cooked ounce- so I'm getting about 36g per 4 cooked ounces.

[RUBICON19]

fit said:

I was double checking my macros. Tim- you're saying 6g per ounce of chicken. I double-checked- it's 6g per ounce RAW. What I've been tracking is COOKED ounces which, according to my database/tool and also nutritiondata.com, is about 9g per cooked ounce- so I'm getting about 36g per 4 cooked ounces.

I multiply cooked weight by 7

[Tim Wescott]

Chris,I have found that on several nutritional databases online,as well as lots of books that I own,the grams per ounce for chicken is anywhere between 6-9 grams per ounce.

I am confused by this to say the least but I opt for the lowest amount just to make sure I`m getting in enough.

Weigh it when cooked,then call it 6,7,8,or 9 gms. per ounce!! LOL

Seriously,they all conflict on this on the sites I`ve visited. #smileydunno9gx# #funkychicken9ke#

[mrbeefy]

Tim,

It must be NPC judges weighing the chicken.

After all, one might say the chicken was too lean, or the other may say not symetrical enough! They're all chicken "pluckers" you know.

I don't think NABBA would weigh them....get their height perhaps!

[beckie]

I'm with Tim I usually go for the 6g per ounce...

[Tim Wescott]

mrbeefy said:

Tim,

It must be NPC judges weighing the chicken.

After all, one might say the chicken was too lean, or the other may say not symetrical enough! They're all chicken "pluckers" you know.

I don't think NABBA would weigh them....get their height perhaps!

Right on the money Frank !!! #smileygrouplaugh5js#

[fit]

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