Help Tweaking my Program

[Angie]

I just read Troy's article. Awesome article Troy!! It sparked me to ask for help here, so here it goes...

Is it possible for you guys to help me tweak my program? I'm trying to add mass right now and I know I'm not eating enough. I figure I'll work on bulking up till Oct 1st. I already have a high body fat content(have never measured it) so adding a couple of fat pounds doesn't worry me, I just want to add as much mass as I can right now to begin with and being a girl I don't know if I can pack it on like you guys do?

First I'm needing the formula to figure up what I need to be eating. I figured it up one time and now I can't find where I got that formula or if it was even right. It had me maintaining at 3120cal. I'm 240lbs right now. 5'6", 35yoa.

I've just started this bulking phase, I'm 6 days into this and my adverage intake is 2300cals(I know not enough). From reading stuff here on this board I don't think I'm eating enough carbs?

Let me give you yesterdays food:

Meal 1
2whole eggs 5 whites
1/2cup All Bran
1/2 cup milk

Meal 2
1 can Tuna
1 Banana

Meal 3
1 Cup Cottage Cheese 1%
1 Cup Pinapple (from can)
1 Peach

Meal 4
1 can Tuna
1 slice of whole wheat Bread
1 tlb Peanut Butter

Meal 5
5 oz Chicken Breast
1 cup brown Rice
1 carrot

Meal 6
1/2 cup Cottage Cheese
1/2 cup Oats

The cals for this day was 2460 (estimated). So if I figured it right and my maintaining cals are 3120 then I'm off about 600-700 cals. LOL! And I think I'm eating alot now. HA!!!

What other info do you guys need to help me tweak my program?

THANKS!
Angie

[Maximum6]

try getting at least 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight.

1oz of meat is usually 6g of protein ...so spread it out.
1eggwhite is about 3.5g protein.

I personally would suggest you ditch the yolks...and go for healthier fats such as almonds or nut butters. in your cereal.

Not to mention drink more water..

[Troyster]

Thanks Angie 3120 cals sounds about right for maintenance. I wouldn't go too much higher than that.

Your food choices are pretty good but you do need to get your protein up, like Max said. But I'd shoot for more like 1.5 to 2 grams/ lb of bodyweight.

Depending on which method you intend to use, the approach may vary a little. How I approach it is a little different. I basically have a general list of food I consider "OK". For meats, I stick to very lean cuts of beef and just cannot preach enough on the value of chicken breast. Then I count by calories (carbs only come from whole foods or roughly ground grains) and split it 1/2 carb calories (that includes your grains, veggies and fruit) and 1/2 protein and fats calories. If you're eating from those foods, you're grams of each will already be inline.

For carb cals: rice, potato, yams, cereals (puffed wheat, shredded wheat, Red River -- if you have it there), fruits, pretty much anything "whole" or roughly ground.

Count milk as 1/2 and 1/2 and only skim. So 1 cup = 45 carb cals and 45 protein cals.

Other than that, it looks pretty good. Protein must be higher to build muscle!

T

[J65]

What no deer meat, Angie?

All joking aside, it seems that the key to success is eating big and reletively clean(high protein, good carbs, low fat). That's what as a newbie I've been following. Plus you are a woman and you may have different requirements. I'm not an expert and will leave that up to those with more experience, but do wish you good luck and success.

[Maximum6]

If you look at my bulking diet ..i have Buffalo and Ostrich!

they also had Venison for sale ...but i wasn't sure what that was....is that deer?

[Angie]

Troyster said:
Thanks Angie 3120 cals sounds about right for maintenance. I wouldn't go too much higher than that.

So I should be able to add mass with the maintenace amount?

J65 said:
What no deer meat, Angie?

LOL!!! I'm all out and Bow season doesn't start till Oct 1st.

Maximum6 said:
... they also had Venison for sale ...but i wasn't sure what that was....is that deer?

Yep that's deer, elk, moose... all your big game animals.

Thanks Guys! Just got done with my lower body workout & hoping I can climb the stairs to bed here soon. LOL!!! ;D

Angie

[J65]

Here are some nutritional facts about venison. The first article is great in explaining about venison but they leave out the most important point. How much protein it has!

Question:
Tell me about venison. I'm interested in information about total fat and saturated fat content.

Sharon / Illinois

Answer:

Venison is a broad term that refers to meat from any of a variety of game animals such as deer, elk, moose, caribou and antelope. The nutritional value and the quality of these meats depend on:

* Type of animal — deer, elk, moose, caribou, antelope or reindeer.

* Age of the animal. Younger animals are usually more tender.

* Diet of the animal. Animals with access to abundant food sources have more body fat — so their meat is higher in fat and calories.

* Time of year hunted. In spring, after a long winter and scarce food, meat is tougher and leaner.

In general, game meat is leaner than meat from domesticated animals. The small amount of fat on game meat is strong tasting, so you should remove it before cooking. For maximum tenderness, cook slowly — either braise in liquid, or roast and baste frequently...

www.ohiohealth.com/healthreference/reference/C95480B1-79A5-4228-979AB451F251F101.htm?category=questions

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Here is the second source. This site goes into megadetail about the nutrients of deer meat.

I'll post the genral nutrition table and leave a link for the rest.



www.nutritiondata.com/facts-001-02s03kp.html

[Angie]

I'm not sure where these people get their information but for deer there is no spring season. Hunting season is usually fall/winter for most big game.

Plus if you shoot an old 'tough' deer just let it hang for 3 weeks that will tenderize it.

Also to take the gamey taste out of the meat soak the meat over night in a bowl of milk.

We've taken deer that were really fatty but the fat was mostly right under the skin. The meat wasn't marbled like cow meat would be.


Angie

[J65]

Thanks for the clarification, Angie. You no doubt have more experience is such matters.

There are tons of deer where I live currently. Every couple of days see a couple of them along the road(live). They'll also come through the backyard sometimes. They seem to like to graze on a neighbors bush.

[ChrisC]

Angie:

Hope I don't throw a spanner in the works but....

Troy's bulking/cutting article is referring to people who are already at a relatively low bodyfat. Shifting from low bodyfat/low calories to a higher calorie diet will stimulate gains when coupled with exercise. If the person starts at a low bodyfat then typically when the bulking starts, the body will add muscle at a faster rate than fat (ideally). However, this is not an indefinite process. You will experience diminishing gains - in other words lets start off by saying the added mass is 50%muscle, 50% fat. This ratio will not stay constant. The problem is that over time your body is not going to keep responding like that and the muscle/fat ratio is going to go down. At this point, sure, you might be building muscle but now for every 1 pound of muscle you may be adding 5 pounds of fat. (btw, I'm just spitballing all these numbers).

Once that person has added some bulk (muscle and some fat), then diet down to reduce the fat while holding on to as much muscle as possible.

The problem I see in your case is the cutting part. I assume you are not looking for single digit bodyfat levels, so I'll use 180lbs as a ballpark figure. Right now that is a drop of 60lbs. Holding on to signifcant muscle while dropping 60lbs will be tough enough as it is - without starting at a weight >240lbs. (remember that 1lb fat=3500 cals)

I assume that is why Troy mentioned not to go too far abvoe your maintenance level and instead increase the protein in your diet.

Personally, I wouldn't focus on the scale or on ensuring I got 3200 calories much at all - so long as you are getting stronger, who cares if the scale isn't going up or if you are only consuming 2300 cals per day? I understand your rationale for not worrying too much about weight, just keep in mind that traditional 'bulking' may not be an optimal strategy.

Keep in mind I could very well be talking out my behind - I'll defer to Tim, Troy & co. on matters of nutrition.

Chris.

[Angie]

So do y'all think it's possible if I stick to around 3000cals for me to add 'some' muscle in the next month or 2? I want to at least start cutting by Oct 1st. Got christmas party in the future. LOL! That gives me 2 1/2 months of cutting.

I'm not in this for contests (yet) I'm just in this for me, my heath and to please my husband. He's not a BB, does't even care to lift weights, he just admires women who do. I don't care to look like a 'finess' chick, I want to look like a body builder, that is my goal. One more goal is to be strong enough to beat my husband in are wrestling. I want to shut him up once and for all. LMAO!!!

Ok enough sillyness for now.

TTYL,
Angie

[Maximum6]

If you haven't developed any real muscles yet..i say bulk longer ...at least 5 months or so. Plus..Christmas, Thanksgiving...its perfect time to BULK! Then maybe easter start cutting

[Troyster]

Thanks Chris, we are both definitely on the same page here

Angie, let's start with your Christmas goal. Keeping in mind that if a person loses more than 1.5 - 2 lbs of fat per week, they will lose muscle as well, what do you think would be a good goal weight for you by mid December?

T

[Angie]

I do realize that loosing more that 2 lbs a week is eating into muscle. I do want to avoid that as much as possible.

I do think I have a considerable amount of muscle, just not sure how to measure it since I'm measuring fat also. My right bicep is 16 3/4in My left bicep is 3/4in smaller. I'm lop-sided! LOL! I have 17 1/2in calfs.

I would like to be 220lbs by December. I know trying to be any lower than that by then I'm eating muscle. Maybe I should just concentrate on cutting now and get a jump start on my Christmas Party Goal??

Thanks!
Angie

[Maximum6]

My guess is that either way you're still going to lose fat as you would be going heavier in lifting...and eating correctly.

[Troyster]

Angie said:

I do realize that loosing more that 2 lbs a week is eating into muscle. I do want to avoid that as much as possible.

I do think I have a considerable amount of muscle, just not sure how to measure it since I'm measuring fat also. My right bicep is 16 3/4in My left bicep is 3/4in smaller. I'm lop-sided! LOL! I have 17 1/2in calfs.

I would like to be 220lbs by December. I know trying to be any lower than that by then I'm eating muscle. Maybe I should just concentrate on cutting now and get a jump start on my Christmas Party Goal??

Thanks!
Angie

Honestly, I would think cutting to be your best choice.

As far as getting your fat-to-muscle ratio, there are a couple ways:
1) Go to a health club and have a test done. Most give you a free one when you join up (depending on where you live, I guess). This test is not %100 accurate but it's well within the acceptable range for our purposes here.
2) Purchase calipers and perform skinfold measurements. We'll give you a link to a site that tells you how and where (gives all the necessary details).
3) Forward us a current photo of yourself in a bathing suit or shorts and tank top and we can estimate it for you.

I typically recommend that before anyone bulk, they get to a very lean level (as in abs visible) before bulking up.

Hope this helps.

Troy

[Maximum6]

;Dyea..don't over do it like me though. ...

I've made alot of mistakes and that is why i'm probably so light weight.

For one....no one ever told me about Post workout nutrition....RGARY ...from Kenchi board who is a respectable man...just told me to run and run like hell...and thats what i did. I didn't take care of PWO..or even counted how much i ate.

Make sure you take care of your nutrition...or you lose TOO much weight.