Help Tweaking my Program 2

[Angie]

For some reason that thread I started will not let me reply. All the other threads will but that one will not. I tried to PM Tim but I got an error message.

Anyway, Troy mentioned that I should concentrate on cutting before considering bulking. If my maintainence level is Help 3120 cals, how low should I consider going with my calories?

I do plan on getting a body fat measurment, I will let y'all know.

Thanks,
Angie

[diecast747]

I've always heard, don't go to low in calories....but burn alot of calories.......if you eat to low below your bmr your metabolism will slow down......go with a 500 decrease in calories

[J65]

diecast747 said:

I've always heard, don't go to low in calories....but burn alot of calories.......if you eat to low below your bmr your metabolism will slow down......go with a 500 decrease in calories

Diecast. I have heard that also. Something to the effect becuase you are depriving yourself of enough calories, the body goes into survival mode and slows down the metabolism.

[Maximum6]

you got to know your maintenance. UP it 500 calories to bulk...up 200-300 to maintain bulk.

Lower 500 to cut....lower 200-300 from maintenance to remain cut...thats what i read on Wannabebig forum.

[ChrisC]

Angie said:

For some reason that thread I started will not let me reply. All the other threads will but that one will not. I tried to PM Tim but I got an error message.

Anyway, Troy mentioned that I should concentrate on cutting before considering bulking. If my maintainence level is Help 3120 cals, how low should I consider going with my calories?

I do plan on getting a body fat measurment, I will let y'all know.

Thanks,
Angie

Hey Angie:

Some thoughts:


1) Might be helpful if you discussed specific goals - are you looking to reach a certain bodyweight? bodyfat? diet for a set period of time? etc.

2) As was mentioned 1-2 lbs per week is what you can likely expect in a best case scenario (at least in terms of losing fat while retaining as much muscle as possible). Remember that 1lb fat ~=3500 calories. This averages to 500 a day. In other words you will need to expend around 500 calories per day more than you consume. 2lbs per week would be 7000 calories or 1000 per day. Note that when starting a diet you will probably drop more than this initially as your body adjusts to your new diet/exercise routine.

3) You can do this however you prefer (within reason). Lets assume your rmr is 3000. eating 2500 calories a day and doing no exercise would almost identical results to eating 3000 calories per day and expending 500 per day exercising.

This isn't strictly true, obvioulsy there are addtioinal benefits to exercise.
This won't work at extremes, so eating 6000 calories and trying to burn off 3500 per day or only eating 1000 per day is not an optimal strategy.

4) Re: Bodydat measurment. as you probably know, there are many different measures, all will give different numbers. It doesn't matter which method you use so long as a) the method is internally consistent - accurate relative to itself (it doesn't tell you 24.7 one week and 45.1 the next) and b) you stick with that method. - If you use calipers one week, hydrostatic measurment the next, etc. then the numbers will be all over the place and largely useless.


There will be issues you have to deal with - your rmr will not remain constant. For example, muscle burns more calories than fat, so if you add muscle mass your rmr will increase. This means you will need to fine tune your diet as the weeks progress in order to meet you goals.

[Troyster]

Hey Angie. I find that a fat test is a good way to get a good STARTING POINT, but I generally recommend the scale as the tool to utilize througout your diet. Now, many will tell you it's not accurate and it doesn't give you an "overall picture" of how your ratios are changing. That's very true. However, I find people drop a diet like a stone after a couple weeks if they have to become a math whiz and have to measure themselves with a caliper all the time.

Although the scale CAN give a bit of an unclear message (i.e. did I gain/lose fat or muscle?), I find that application of a little common sense clears up the message the scale is giving. Muscle is not metabolized or built anywhere near as quickly or easily as fat. So... if you wake up and you're 5 lbs heavier... it ain't muscle... and if you're five pounds less... it ain't muscle loss.

Back to the beginning (and this is exactly how I approach a contest)... I get a fat test done and use that as a starting point. I know I want to shoot for a couple percent fat... in your case it will be a desired weight. I roughly calculate my maintenance calories and start there as I've only estimated calorie req's... there are so many personal factors to consider that it's a waste of time to try to go to more detail in calculation... we're interested in RESULT here, not numbers.

I weigh myself every morning and record the weight. At the end of the week, I'll judge how my weight has progressed. If it's up (hopefully not too much), I cut back my calories by only 100 -- maybe 150, depending on the change. If I've lost weight, I have to make a judgement call... on the first couple of weeks, presuming you actually turn your eating around and eat clean, a person can easily drop 5 - 7 lbs of water (and a couple lbs of fat). So what I'm saying is the first couple weeks doesn't really "count" in terms of the 1.5 - 2 lb loss schedule (it's water loss). Naturally, I'll watch to see that it slows. If it's more than that, I'll increase by 100 cals or so.

Then as I go along, I'll continue to adjust accordingly. There will be anomolies in the weight... if you cheated, expect to see the impact on the scale but if you didn't and it goes up a couple pounds one day... that's not relevant -- what's important is the AVERAGE loss by the week. I find I have weeks where I'll lose nothing for a week, then lose 4 lbs the next, then lose 1 the next. That's why I judge by the week by average instead of focussing too hard on the day-by-day.

So, this was just one big long-winded way of saying the scale will work just fine. And, to be honest, as long as we have a target weight, your current fat/LBM percentages don't really matter (depending on which method you intend to use)... I just get a starting point and adjust from there based on results.

However, in order for this approach to work, you have to know how many calories your eating (and I'm not talking an estimate). I weigh/measure everything and record it so that I can look back and make judgement calls based on the food intake.

Sounds daunting, I know, but it's actually quite easy and as you move along, you get so you remember food values.

Lilke Chris said, let's get a good idea of what you want your weight at by say... what do you figure? December 10?

Troy

[Angie]

1) Might be helpful if you discussed specific goals - are you looking to reach a certain bodyweight? bodyfat? diet for a set period of time? etc.

I'm in no hurry to reach my final goal... which is to be in compitition shape, even if I never compete, I just want to see how far I can take myself.

First goal is health.
Second goal is to see my Abs.

I know the goal to see my Abs is a long term goal, I'm in no rush. I know it will take time and patience. As I'm doing this I want to hang onto as much muscle as possible. Being Big and Muscular is another goal.

I'm still trying to find someone who will help me with bodyfat measurement. I'm not sure I'd know how too if I had calipers myself? Did someone say they had a link to that kind of information? I live in no mans land... I might be able to find someone at the health dept or maybe at the City Gym that would help me?

I would like to have 20lbs off by Dec... the 10th is probably a good goal, the Party is usually around that date.

I just recently bought a food scale and a new bathroom scale. I have all the measuring cups needed to keep track of amounts. I have a Fit Day account and use it to find calorie values, but I've yet use it religiously to track everything. That is where I need to be more strict on myself is keeping track of everything.

Thanks Guys!

Angie

[Maximum6]

If you don't take care of PWO...and eat nothing but salads for carbs....You can lose 20lbs....but that would likely be muscle...I doubt you can lose 20lbs by dec. 10th. As i say it might be dangerous...risking muscle loss...I'm not saying you can't..but you want muscle is what you said.

I suggest start cutting now...Lower your maintenance calories by 500 in 5 weeks. Lower it by 100 calories per week..until the 5th week. Then eat what you eat on the 5th week...exercise....increase cardio...take care of Post workout nutrition....and focus. But i warn you..cutting diet isn't easy. Bulking diet is alot more fun...as you can eat out. I just came back from Seafood buffet..stuffed myself with Crabs, Shrimps, Raw Tuna, Salmon, Squid, Octupus, Mushroom salad, Red Snapper....and more CRABS!!! Man..haven't had crab in a hella long time.

I feel stuff..but thats bulking diet for ya..you are never hungry. While Cutting diet..it gets a little harsh....but once you see your abs you never want to let it go.
Good luck on your Fat loss and muscle gain...while I say good bye to my abs...hehe

[Troyster]

Hey Angie. Wise choice on taking your time and being patient. That's definitely the way to go. It's equally important, though, to get results. If the results are not happening, by the scale, then something needs to change to keep on track.

Here are a couple useful links:
Workout exercises and pics: www.abcbodybuilding.com/exercise1.htm

Bodyfat estimator: www.activeusa.com/calculators/bodyfat_calc.cfm

Overview of bodyfat caliper measurements and how-2: www.techdeva.com/WebHelp/Caliper_Instructions.htm

However, as I suggested above, a person can start with a rough calorie range and work from there. The technique is there.

As for writing it down, I keep a journal and I write it down. I use fitday to get the numbers I need (when I can't remember). It's the most crucial component, no matter what you plan to do.

It's a bit of a pain at first. But remember, in order for something to actually change, you have to change something you do. It's difficult for us all to leave our "comfort zone". But, if you don't leave the comfort zone, you know what happens? The worst possible thing that can happen... NOTHING

Troy

[Angie]

According to the Bodyfat estimator, I have 32% BF. My goal is to be in the 15-18% range. I'm not sure how accurate that is, it doesn't account for my height... but I know it's just an estimate.

Thanks for all the info & advice guys. I really appreciate ya!



Angie