Complex Carb Sources...

[Thinkbig]

After careful consideration I have kind of come up against a few things I need your help with...
1. The "Glycemic Index"
It seems that the lower the Glycemic index the better? correct..
If that is true then cherries and beans are better than oatmeal for a bodybuilder, doesn't sound right.
2. What exactly is a list of "good clean" carb sources?
I thought it was oatmeal, Brown Rice, Yams, etc.
But some say fibrous carbs are best, thing is If I eat only broccoli and cherries and the like,those with low almost no glycemic index, I am flat as heck and feel like CRAP!
PLEASE, help me end the crazy carb insanity...lol

[Maximum6]

hehe...well Oatmeal is probably the best COMPLEX carb there is in my oppinion.

Just eat things like Brown Rice, Beans, Oatmeal, Sweet Potato, and such.

You got to also remember that high gi foods will be lowered when eaten with other things.

Like for example ...one of my MEAL REPLACERS is 1 scoop of whey...3 TBSP of Flaxseeds ...and 1 ripe banana. Bananas are generally med-high gi....except when they are green..which has a gi of 30 or so.

But when i drink my shake the fats and insane amount of fiber from flax should slow down digestion of both the WHEY and the High gi banana. So if you're worried about High gi..eat it with a little fat..

Or simply just eat Brown rice, Oatmeal, Sweet Potatoes, Vegetables, etc.

And yes..Vegetables are probably the best carb source...but it won't fill up your muscle glycogen that well...

[Troyster]

Great question, ThinkBIG...

I look at it this way (normal offseason, I'm talking here): in general, the glycemic index is usesless. There are some things that can be learned from the GI, but not until you're really good at dieting and have learned what foods do and don't "work".

I just generally avoid sugar. Things containing sugar naturally (such as fruit and corn) are fine. It's added sugar that's the problem. We were never created/evolved to eat sugar. The other issue that although it doesn't taste sweet, your body reacts to overly processed foods JUST LIKE sugar. For the most part, I'm talking white flour (actually and "juiced" fruit -- though there are at least vitamins in it).

Stick to whole grains and basically avoid pasta, bread, baking, etc. unless it's "whole grain". Naturally you have a cheat meal... but KNOW it's a cheat when you eat it.

The problem with the GI is it looks at individual foods. Well, we don't digest individual foods... we eat a meal and, in our stomachs, we end up with a mixture of things... EVERY TIME you eat a meal, you get a different mixture... THAT will never add up in the GI.

There's another index, the Glycemic Load (GL) that takes into account EVERYTHING you eat, but it's overly complicated and much too intricate to follow. In the GI, you could take the highest number, sweetest thing in there and add gravy... suddenly the true GI effect is now VERY, VERY LOW... yet it's still fattening... not to confuse you, but the point I'm getting at is it's almost ENTIRELY USELESS. The exception being diabetics... that's really the intent. It's not applicable to diet, in general.

T

[Tim Wescott]

As far as an all around indicator of which carbs to eat as a bodybuilder,I agree with Troy, and have felt the GI is way overated for a long time now.

When I started training many moons ago,all we had to go on on was complex carbs and simple carbs.

Nobody knew of the Glycemic Index at all and guy`s still got ripped!!

Oatmeal,potatoes,yams,brown rice,etc. are all examples of Complex Carbs,as is pasta,but as bodybuilders we don`t indulge in pasta(pre-contest anyway)as it is processed flour,unless it`s whole grain as Troy stated.

Simple Carbs,are fruits, fibrous vegetables,juices etc.

I have known ton`s of people who are competitive bodybuilders, who get absoulutely shredded eating high GI foods, as long as they did not exceed the total amount of carbs eaten for the day that they optimally arrived at through trial and error to keep them lean,whatever that number was.

[Maximum6]

Well yes..i do think GI rating is overated. In terms of losing bodyfat...it won't make much difference. But in terms of performance..i feel that when ever i have a piece of Banana or some red potatoes before i go workout...i feel drained very easily...where as i eat Oatmeal..i feel more enduring.

So I only count GI factor as a way to improve energy and performance. Although that is just me.

And yes ...like troy said..the gi factor is counting eating the food by itself. If you eat a BALANCED meal such as Chicken, Broccoli, and HIGH GI POTATOES.....the broccoli will make gi of potato medium..and thats not even counting the digestion of chicken.

So as long as you eat balanced meal..i say gi doesn't matter.

When it comes to losing bodyfat..it all comes down to cals in vs. cals out...thats what i've learned.

[Thinkbig]

Just wanted to ask, say you are in a state of "off-season" attempting to increase muscle mass in weak areas and stay relatively lean, what is a good carb to eat through out the day? I have chosen brown rice, but would potatoes be just as good?

Some things go better together Beef and Potatoes or Chicken and Rice etc. So its easier for me to eat more as I like Steak and Potatoes and Chicken and Brown Rice, anyway Please Help!

[Maximum6]

Its a pattern here..:

Sweet Potatoes and Turkey

Potatoes and Steak

Rice and Chicken

Rice and Eggs (fried rice)

Eggs and Oatmeal

Eggs + Meat + Bread (mc muffin)

Tuna and Salad

Tuna and Bread

Good carb sources...we already told you. Oatmeal, Sweet Potatoes, Whole Grains, Fresh Vegetables, Fruit..etc. As long as it is unrefined....and is natural you're good.

I personally eat Oatmeal and Bananas everyday..and Brown Rice Preworkout....Sweet potatoes if i feel like it...and potatoes when ever i have a piece of JUICY steak.

Don't worry about the GI factor unless you think your body's performance is effected by it.

[Tim Wescott]

Off-season,you could eat a variety of complex carbs just as you can pre-contest.

It alleviates boredom big time and I don`t see a problem with mixing and matching things at all.

For example:
Meal-1-
Eggs and oatmeal
Meal-2-
Chicken, veggies,brown rice
Meal-3-
Beef, potatoes, salad
Etc. etc.

Find out from trial and error the amount of carbs that start to make you add excess fat,and then go a bit lower until you find an amount that keeps you fairly lean.

Use that amount as your highest daily carb intake for most days.

You will more than likely have to add a bit of fat to gain more size overall ,but you do not have to get too sloppy to do it.

Just hit your limit of carbs each day,and have a few higher days here and there for refueling .

As Max said earlier, calories in, versus calories out, will play a major role in muscle and fat gain......... or losses.

I personally eat in a waaaay more relaxed fashion in the off-season, as I know I`ll be limiting myself severely for 16 weeks or longer, depending on how many contests I am planning on competing in.

[Maximum6]

Hehe...I'm already going twice my bodyweight in carbs....and i'm still good. I'm adding in bananas each week to see how many bananas i can actually eat without getting fat...hehe

;D

Fast Metabolism...eating 6-8 times a day....being active...

At this rate..i might be able to eat 12 bananas per day!!
Plus 2 cups of oats..and 10oz of potatoes....

300lbs....8% bodyfat.. ;D

[Troyster]

You might add a little... well actually A LOT of protein to that diet there... ;D

T

[Maximum6]

Yea..i think its best if i have so much carbs...i need to back it up with Twice the protein..hehe... ;D But i don't think i bust my ass that hard in the gym..not as hard as Tim and you guys i say...

[Troyster]

I generally run 50/50 on and off season. That's %50 of my calories as protein and fats and %50 as carb sources (counting veggies and starches as "carb" calories).

T

[Thinkbig]

Ok guys, I just wanted to get Tim, Troyster and all the other competitors opinion on something:

I have decided to use regular slow cook Oatmeal as my staple carb source for my leaning-out diet.
I generally am carb sensitive but after much consideration, and experimentation, it seems that Oatmeal lets me stay full and strong, yet won't make me gain bodyfat or stay at a standstill.

MY question to you guys is, what do you all think of oatmeal as a main carb source for pre-contest dieting, and what do you guys use to diet to single digit bodyfat?

[Tim Wescott]

Oatmeal is a staple in my diet, pre-contest, and off-season.

I think your idea is a good one.
Two more carb sources I rely on highly are brown rice and yams/sweet potatoes.

Baked potatoes are also a good choice at times also,for me anyway.

Since the oats agree with you,I agree on oats as the way to go!

[Troyster]

I use a very different approach than most, though some things do cross over.

Oats are always on my list from offseason, right up to contest morning. I limit STARCHES some time out from a show and then add them back in at fairly high levels starting three days or so out, whereas many limit carbs, (but I still keep 2 or 3 oz of oats in the morning -- even show morning).

Oats = awesome.

I prefer the larger flake oats, simply because they taste more "meaty" (a bit of a mixed metaphor, but hopefully you know what I mean ).

On my diet it's plain oatmeal (big, small, thick, thin... don't matter, as long as it's plain oats -- not flavored which contains sugars). Many believe that even plain oats (that's rolled oats) are too processed and prefer other, less processed grains such as "steel cut oats". For me, I prefer the taste of steel cut, hard to argue that, but personally find zero difference in the effect.

As for the single digits... depends just how low you want to go. In terms of specifically dieting, I get pretty low with this approach. Generally, the "plainer" you go, lower you go.

And, like Tim said, potatoes and rice are staples on and off for me (though some ways out from a show I'd cut them due to starch content -- then add them back in later -- actually, potatoes only for the "starch-up").

You should get Str8flexed's opinion, he gets nice and ripped too.

T

[Thinkbig]

Thanks Guys!!!
str8flexeds opinions would be great as well.

[Thinkbig]

just bumping for his opinion
,

[Tim Wescott]

bump for the very busy bodyfx for the last time before he kills me.

Eric there was a thread on supplements he wanted your opinion on also .

Take your time..... and put that gun down bro!! ;D