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Post by Tim Wescott on Nov 22, 2004 9:25:21 GMT -5
bump for bodyfx
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Post by bodyfx on Nov 22, 2004 10:07:08 GMT -5
I would add 5-10 g glutamine to the BCAAs before the cardio. I have never lost muscle mass on empty stomach cardio when doing this.
Vitamin C is excellent for recovery, and so is the anti-catabolic supplement phosphatidylserine.
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Post by Troyster on Nov 22, 2004 11:40:31 GMT -5
I've found controlling my food intake, at the caloric level, and keeping my diet clean works best for me. I don't count (or discount) carbs, I approach dieting (on or off season) at %50 calories from protein/fats (while keeping added fats low) and %50 from "carb calories" -- I consider carb calories as follows: I look at all foods containing carbs (from veggies to potatoes) as carb calories. Tecnically, I further split to roughly half starchy carbs (non-veggie) and half veggies (starchy or not). So the breakdown is more %50 protein/fat, %25 veggies, %25 starch-based calories. I've run a couple different carb-cycling diets and have found them effective but found they could only take me so far. Further, I react better on an "even keel" I can't stand the ups-and-downs of the cyclic approach. On contest diet, I reduce the number of total cals (in general) by about 1/3 and halfway through the diet, at 8 weeks out, I switch all calorie intake from "carb calories" to all veggies (sometimes known as a fiber diet). The intent is to considerably restric starch (and thus starchy veggies, like peas for example, come out). So that's a real PILE of veggies every day. I don't experience carb lows (as there are still plenty of carbs in veggies, especially at that volume ). This is a very intriguing part of the diet as dramatic changes occur, even though calorie count is exacltly the same... Glycogen storage is very starch-based so you temporarily become very flat (which, in the contest diet, is the point). It sounds more complicated than it is. I work from a list of foods, already split as mentioned. T
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Sara
Novice Bodybuilder
Posts: 118
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Post by Sara on Nov 22, 2004 13:07:53 GMT -5
I do my cardio in the AM...I take in a sm whey protein shake (23g), 5g glutamine, and 5g BCAAs about 30 mins before. I also take 1/2 serving of creatine titrate afterwards. I did not lose any muscle when dieting/leaning out on this before and I was doing cardio 7 days a week for 30-60 mins a day and sometimes once a week was doing cardio twice a day. In fact, I continued to gain lean mass.
Right now, I doing about 4-5 days of cardio for 30-45 mins.
As for diet, I echo what Ski and others had to say about carb cycling...it worked VERY well for me as I'm somewhat carb sensitive myself. I tend to eat my carbs pre and post workout and maybe with meal 1. On nontraining days, I only have carbs with one meal usually. I tend to stick with low GI carbs the majority of the time when trying to get lean and take in good amt of glutamine, BCAAs and some creatine titrate.
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Post by gti steve on Nov 30, 2004 10:30:29 GMT -5
hey guys, i find this thread very interesting because i am looking to lean out. im 180lbs @ 18-19%BF ....im looking to achieve a 13-15%BF build. right now im doing a Training For Maximal Size Routine as per www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=267max2im currently in phase 2, which is compound movements with 12 sets of 4 reps. its pretty tough because it works the fast twitch fibers. i enjoyed phase 1 which was 5sets of 12reps. i feel the higher reps give me a tighter frame. this program calls for no Cardivascular Activity in conjunction with this program; burning excess calories through cardiovascular activity isn't of value. Also, with the high volume of training i'll be doing, incorporating even more exercise can become neurologically draining and may lead to overtraining. which is true because it was so demanding. what would be the best way?
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Post by Tim Wescott on Nov 30, 2004 10:35:45 GMT -5
GTI,Let me get this straight...you`re doing 12 sets of 4 reps for every exercise,and every bodypart, with no cardio at all?
Correct?
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Post by gti steve on Nov 30, 2004 10:44:19 GMT -5
12 sets of 4reps with a 5-6rep max weight. so for instance. last cycle i was squatting 195 for 5 sets with 12reps. this cycle im doing between 215-225 with 4 reps.
i am not doing every body part each day it is broken into A,B,C, and D A squats incline DB Curls B suppine pull ups dips C deadlifts calve raises on 45degree sled D Standing DB Military press incline DB chest press
and NO cardio
i hope i clarified a little better
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Post by sockrocker on Nov 30, 2004 14:10:12 GMT -5
if you are at all like me, you will have to buy more clean foods when you diet...so, to make this as cheap as possible, do this:
first, get a membership to sam's club (ask for one for christmas if you don't already have one)
second, go to the meat department and take note of the "sell by" date on all of the lean beef
THEN, go BACK ON THE DAY that the meat has to be sold by...anything that they haven't sold will be marked down in price (sometimes drastically)...
as long as you go home and either cook it immediately or freeze it that day, it is perfectly fine...i recently bought some 90% lean ground beef for $1.50/lb (marked down from $2.00/lb) doing this...
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Post by Tim Wescott on Nov 30, 2004 14:33:49 GMT -5
12 sets of 4reps with a 5-6rep max weight. so for instance. last cycle i was squatting 195 for 5 sets with 12reps. this cycle im doing between 215-225 with 4 reps. i am not doing every body part each day it is broken into A,B,C, and D Asquats incline DB Curls Bsuppine pull ups dips Cdeadlifts calve raises on 45degree sled DStanding DB Military press incline DB chest press and NO cardio i hope i clarified a little better Steve,Your original post was clear enough,it was my muddled up mind that was trying to avoid confusion!! First of all, training on a routine such as the one you are currently doing, isn`t going to burn a hell of a lot of calories!! I realize it`s a basic workout, and not some blitzing marathon type regimen, but you will absoulutely HAVE to create a calorie deficit, because you`re not really burning up much training in this style. This all comes down to diet, and making drastic changes. Besides the definate lack of calorie expenditure,doing 4 reps on certain bodyparts, and certain exercises, does not lend itself well to the particular bodypart in question, ie. 4 rep sets for calves....I would never recommend that exclusively, but that is only my opinion, and we are all different. Bottom line........ training like this without cardio, you need to cut cals,increase lean protein sources,and keep fats to a bare minimum. If you are on any type of structured diet, as we all should be ,my recommendation would be to re-vamp it big time, if you expect to get leaner!! Just my thoughts, and I`m sure others may vary!! Good luck ,and if you need any help dietwise, we have some experts in that area here. so just ask!!
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Post by gti steve on Nov 30, 2004 14:47:25 GMT -5
Tim, first off let me thank you for taking the time to even respond with such an in depth answer. I am not a competitor nor do i try to be better then anyone else. im a typical 21 year old who is just trying to shed a little bit around the middle. i have been working out for nearly a year and a half. i have made significant progress in terms of dropping Bf. when i started i was approx. 25-27% BF. last measured in june i was 21%. and judging by the mirror and comments from other professionals at my gym, i would say i am in the teens now, most probably 19%. i need help with my diet and i know you all can help me out. i dont follow a "counting calorie" kind of thing, i just watch the portions. i undertsand this could be a big mistake when wanting to lean out but thats how i do it.
breakfast is usually as follows -glass of milk -2 whole wheat pancakes with no sugar/no calorie, fat syrup or sometimes i vary and i have 2 whole eggs and 1 egg white with 2 pieces of WW toast
i might have a mid morning snack such as fruit or yogurt.
for lunch its usually a 8oz piece of chicken over a bed of spinach greens with a little bit of casar sauce on the side for dipping. or i oopt for sliced chicken breast (about 40 grams of protein, 1 gram fat) and mixed vegetables
i usually never have a mid day snack, i go home and then i hit the gym. immediatly following the gym i have AfterMax by Optimun Nutrition and then about hour later ill have a whole meal of mainly protein and carbs.
fix me up tim. fix me up ;D
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Post by Tim Wescott on Nov 30, 2004 14:56:02 GMT -5
No problem at all Steve,I`m always glad to help out if I am able to, and think I can offer any good suggestions or advice.
I would follow a much higher protein type diet, without too many carbs,and I would eliminate bread,fruit,and dairy, until I acheived my BF% goal.
I mentioned this on MassMonsters, where someone cited bacon and pepperoni as being good diet foods.......trust me thay are not. :Happy Spinner:
A calorie isn`t just a calorie,it`s the food choice that counts.
I type with my right index finger only,LOL so let me get a break and mull over some thoughts, and I`ll probably end up posting my standard type sample cutting diet that I recommend to most.
Before I do this,I would say to eat approximately every 3 hours, and eat lighter ...maybe 6-8 times a day.
It`s not the portion size that matters as much as the food choices in the portions!
I`ll get back to you with my diet later on today ,I promise,and I also promise that you`ll probably end up hating my guts because of it!! ;D
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Post by gti steve on Nov 30, 2004 14:58:13 GMT -5
Tim, thanks again. No rush on the diet, just when you get a chance.
so far i got: eat lighter eat more often no bread, fruit or dairy
hm so no oatmeal??
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Post by Tim Wescott on Nov 30, 2004 15:00:33 GMT -5
Oatmeal is a diet staple for me,just without milk,bacon,or pepperoni!! ;D
I eat it with SF Maple Syrup or Equal only.
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Post by gti steve on Nov 30, 2004 15:02:00 GMT -5
yea my pancakes are only made of oatmeal and egg whites. MmMM good and i top with FF,SF,CalorieFree Maple Syrup ;D
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Post by Tim Wescott on Nov 30, 2004 15:14:36 GMT -5
OK,my finger having rested between posts is ready to go. Measure and weigh things if you want to be successful regardless of what we have discussed elsewhere!! LOL It`s a bit*h at first but after a while it`s like brushing your teeth in the AM!! Meal #1- 10 egg whites scrambled in Pam spray 1/2 cup oatmeal water Meal#2- 1 can water packed tuna salad w fat-free,low-sugar dressing (3-5 ms. of sugar) baked potato water Meal#3- 8oz skinless chick. breast 1/2 cup brown rice 1 cup veggies (plain) salad (same as above) water Meal # 4- 6oz. lean steak(cut off all visible fat) 1/2 cup brown rice water Meal#5- 1 can water packed tuna (plain) water Meal#6- 8oz. chicken breast water Throw in a pre and post workout drink made with whey protein and water and you`re all set. I would seriously consider adding cardio for faster results and for this to be more effective. There are of course other foods you can eat but this is just a sample represenation!!
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Post by sockrocker on Nov 30, 2004 15:49:52 GMT -5
also, gum helps a great deal when dieting...as long as i'm chewing gum, i'm not craving candy or getting real hungry...i generally go through a pack every few days while dieting
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Post by Intensity on Nov 30, 2004 15:54:22 GMT -5
Personnaly, i keep it very simple:
The most important thing for me is that i must remember that i eat NUMBER and not FLAVOR
I eat 7-8 meals a day on non training day and 8-9 meals in training day.
Each meal is high in protein (30 to 60 gram) very low in fat (only the essential fat) and moderate in carbs (150 to 300 gram)
I continu to train heavy and Intense
Keep the sexual activity high ;D ;D
what else? eee, maybe adjust thing be the way i look...
Mo
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Post by gti steve on Nov 30, 2004 17:46:36 GMT -5
would having a carbohydrate defecit affect my workouts, bein that im going very heavy with high sets? i thought carbs were key for workouts?
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Post by Tim Wescott on Nov 30, 2004 17:50:12 GMT -5
You`ll have plenty of stored glycogen to make it through those brief sessions,plus you could cycle carbs where some days are higher.
With those workouts, even taking ample rest between sets into consideration because of poundages being so heavy,you should be in and out in 45 minutes or less!
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Post by gti steve on Nov 30, 2004 18:16:18 GMT -5
well Tim thats the thing. each rep has a controlled motion, as does all movement, but this program promotes 3 seconds down, 1 second up kind of tempo. and to bang out 12 sets of 4 reps, would take like 25 min alone for one exercise with propper breaks. then to do it again for exercise #2 is a whopper. i usually get out within 45-60 minuetes.
today i am under the weather so i didnt do the routine as suggested. i 50% the weight and sets. so i only did for example, squats, 5 sets of 6reps with moderate weight. to kind of maintain some physique. i was actulaly thinking of skipping the gym but i dont wanna miss a day :Applause:
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