personal trainer question

[Maximum6]

Now i'm not a personal trainer... at least not yet.

But when people come up to me for help on their "fitness goals"....How do i suggest to them to start on a diet?

Like do i make them count their foods and get them on a 40/40/20 diet? And do all the complicated stuff?

or is it better to just to get them to eat balanced meals 6 times a day....with what ever they want so they don't count how many calories in their food. But they do weigh their food..(protein anyway). And from there see if they lose weight or gain ...and depending on their goal ,adjust how much they eat, but still not counting any calories.

[sicario]

I have NEVER been able to count calories myself, as I find it the most BORING thing on earth to do!!!!!! That may be the "correct" way to do it "in theory," but down in "the trenches" I think that most if not all people (myself included) will get bored real quick and end up abandoning the diet. I also really don't think that it is necessary to count calories to either get cut or bulk up. I can't ever tell you how many calories I'm taking in at any given time during the year, but I can tell you almost down to a gram how much protein I take in a day, LOL. If I were you I'd have them set up their ratios (protein, carbs, fat) according to their weight loss or weight gain goals and then simply add or subtract meals according to what they want to do. I think that in the aspect of diet, modern bodybuilding has become much more complicated than it really needs to be. For example, a guy comes to you and says he wants to put on muscle. You ask him how many times he's eating a day. He says "four" for example. You simply add two meals (personally I always add protein, as I am not a big carb fan at all ) and watch his weight for a few weeks. If it doesn't move, you can increase the serving portions of his meals, or add another meal if his schedule allows. If he's putting on a pound about every week or two you just have him maintain that till he "tops off," then add more protein and see what happens. I find this method much more "user friendly" than getting out the old calorie counting book and the food scale, Sicario.

[Maximum6]

actually...sometimes adding meals to an individual would speed up their metabolism.

At times...5 big meals to gain muscle is good.

but i see your point.


begininers shouldn't be forced to count everything down to the calorie. It might actually force them to get off diet.

[beckie]

As a trainer myself,the best thing a beginner can do is keep a food journal of what they eat-do this for 1-2 weeks and add in short notes of how they feel each day. that way they will start to become aware of how their body reacts to different foods.
Most dieticians start all their clients off with the following ratio's and then adjust them up or down over time:
50-55% carb
15-25% protein
20-30% fat

These of course are not just for a bodybuilder but for any athlete and come from the NSCA guidelines for personal trainers.

As someone who trains bodybuilders the most important factor is working out how the body reacts to different types of carbs ie makes one sleepy etc and this is why a journal is so good!

[sicario]

beckie said:

As a trainer myself,the best thing a beginner can do is keep a food journal of what they eat-do this for 1-2 weeks and add in short notes of how they feel each day. that way they will start to become aware of how their body reacts to different foods.
Most dieticians start all their clients off with the following ratio's and then adjust them up or down over time:
50-55% carb
15-25% protein
20-30% fat

These of course are not just for a bodybuilder but for any athlete and come from the NSCA guidelines for personal trainers.

As someone who trains bodybuilders the most important factor is working out how the body reacts to different types of carbs ie makes one sleepy etc and this is why a journal is so good!

Very good point Beckie. Whenever I get someone who is REALLY serious about cutting up (and not just the "do you have a foto copy of a diet I can try client), I ask them to write down everything that they eat for two weeks in a note book (including portion size, and times). Then before actually "making" a diet for them I'll study their journal and look for eating patterns and see where they can improve (adding or subtracting a meal), to get them to where they want to go. I've also found out that it's very important to see what people like and don't like to eat, as even the most "perfect" diet will fail if it's based on foods that a particular person doesn't like. Sicario.

[Maximum6]

I know that is just a starting point...in that personal trainer guideline thing...

but why 55% carb?

the ratios i hear about most is

50carb/25protein/25fat

40carb/40protein/20fat

30carb/50protein/20fat

If anything...the 40/40/20 diet is very popular because i believe the bodybuilder would not consume more protein than he can assumilate in one sitting. And if the diet is set up right...each meal..the carbs aren't so high that it would set the blood sugar going up and down making the person tired.

Then the 30/50/20 diet....i can see alot of people doing when they're dieting down for the show...

The 50/25/25 diet...alot of carbs. Assuming the person is consuming 1-2g of protein ....per lb. of bodyweight..and that makes 25% of his protein calories....That would mean ALOT of calories are coming from carbs....


But anyway....does setting up a client on a specific ratio matter?

[sicario]

maximum6 said:

I know that is just a starting point...in that personal trainer guideline thing...

but why 55% carb?

the ratios i hear about most is

50carb/25protein/25fat

40carb/40protein/20fat

30carb/50protein/20fat

If anything...the 40/40/20 diet is very popular because i believe the bodybuilder would not consume more protein than he can assumilate in one sitting. And if the diet is set up right...each meal..the carbs aren't so high that it would set the blood sugar going up and down making the person tired.

Then the 30/50/20 diet....i can see alot of people doing when they're dieting down for the show...

The 50/25/25 diet...alot of carbs. Assuming the person is consuming 1-2g of protein ....per lb. of bodyweight..and that makes 25% of his protein calories....That would mean ALOT of calories are coming from carbs....


But anyway....does setting up a client on a specific ratio matter?

You are bringing up some very interesting points Mike, I'm going to give you MY PERSONAL take on this. I feel that the ratios are THE most important factor in a diet, even more important than the total calore count!!!! I won't give the ratios for my own cutting diet, because I know that a lot of people would jump all over me saying that it is very unhealthy,LOL, and they would be right!! But since it's my own body, the only one taking the chances is me!!! Just let me say that my protein is VERY high and my carbs are VERY low to almost non existant. Anyways, I think that a whole diet "program" should revolve around the ratios much more than the whole calorie count. If someone wants to get cut up, I jack up their protien, and cut their carbs. If someone wants to gain weight, I still keep their protein high (cuz it's the ONLY thing that builds muscle), but will have them eating carbs too. I never have anyone's carb ratio higher than their protein ratio (unless they are super skinny), but that is just my personal experience with diets. I respect other opinions about higher carb ratios, I just haven't found them to be satisfactory according to my PERSONAL criteria. Just to drive my point home, look at it like this. You could take the same person and put them on a 2500 cal a day diet. But depending on the ratios, the results would be DRAMATICALLY different, which is why I favor setting up a diet according to ratios rather than calorie counting. Sicario.

[beckie]

Thats true and you have to factor in their body type and metabolism as well,that is why you need to be cautious in the beginning. If you can find out how their body reacts to carbs,then you have a better chance of getting accurate macros down... For me to bulk,I use a 50/30/20 regime but when I cut I use a 45/30/25 breakdown..the differences are really subtle for some but quite dramatic for others!

the 55% is a number alot of dieticians use as a base when they have a new client with no diet records-for most bb'ers this would be too high,but again if they are a tall skinny guy wanting to add muscle,it may work!

[Tim Wescott]

Sicario,I do the exact same thing............notebook, and record past eating habits for two weeks,then I make adjustments according to the trainees goals,age,sex,length of training experience,fitness level, bodytype (ecto,meso,endo)and mental drive.

Is he or she a novice or a competitor,and are they in it for the long haul or do they just like the idea of hiring a trainer, and actually have no clue as to how hard they are required to work and be dedicated to a strict dietary regimen.

First thing for a novice is getting them to eliminate junk,and eat good food inh its place,then increase meals,and liquids...........all comes in baby steps ,but a bodybuilder should be fairly easy to train if you can break old habits.

I count macros as a rule as opposed to calories,but of course at times cals must be adsjusted to reach a certain goal.

[Intensity]

Max, when you ask "… do all the complicated stuff or just get them to eat balanced meals 6 times a day?" i would answer you that it depends of the objectif of the person! Most of them wont be dedicated enough because they are not motivated enough (And that's not pejorative, it's a personnal choice) to do the more complicated stuff which is in my mind the more efficient stuff! But if the person is motivated to achieve a specific kind of physique, i think you need to focus on macros! First, slowly bring him over months to the optimal protein amount for him (depending of his body composition , metabolism, lifestyle, lifting experience, etc) and after that adjust week after week the carbs and fat ratio depending of the objective (cutting or adding mass). Because my personnal vision of this is that it's easy not to count anything, but to be OPTIMAL in our objectif (for example losing fat AND retaining muscle or adding muscle BUT minimal fat) you would benifit counting and adjusting macros!

[sicario]

admin said:

Sicario,I do the exact same thing............notebook, and record past eating habits for two weeks,then I make adjustments according to the trainees goals,age,sex,length of training experience,fitness level, bodytype (ecto,meso,endo)and mental drive.

Is he or she a novice or a competitor,and are they in it for the long haul or do they just like the idea of hiring a trainer, and actually have no clue as to how hard they are required to work and be dedicated to a strict dietary regimen.

.

Lol, I'd say that about 99 percent of the people who ask me for diet help fall into the second group!!!!! I'd love to sit down with you some day and compare people's two week food journals, I'm shure that we could find a lot of "material" for the "Funny Stuff" forum, LOL, My all time favorite is the "cold calorie" theory. I had a gal who was already supposedly dieting before starting off with me eating a ton of ice cream. When I asked her what was all this ice cream doing in her food journal, she replied to me VERY matter of factly, "cold calories aren't as fattening" LMAO!!!!!! Sicario.

[Maximum6]

i was thinking about the ratios recently.

Everybody has a different calorie ratio that is right for them.

however....for someone who is on ratio like 40/40/20 and hoping to gain weight...it some times becomes unrealistic.


like for example ...they are already doing 2x bodyweight in protein. That would mean 2x bodyweight in carbs. They have gotten off the contest for a couple weeks now and WAS gaining some good quality muscle weight for those few weeks on the 40/40/20. However, this man is eating 6-7meals a day and each one of his meals is already 50+g of protein. He can't eat anymore than 7meals so he can't really spread out the protein more. And staying on a 40/40/20 diet...he can't increase carbs unless he increase the PROTEIN also...but that is hella protein per meal!. That's when you should think about what your goals are.

I've heard alot of stories about a bodybuilder trying to stay lean and gain muscle. Its alright to a certain point...but in my oppinion..if you want to push through past the weight that you've gained before...The only way is to BULK HARDCORE!