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Post by gti steve on Feb 9, 2007 8:59:57 GMT -5
this meathead on another board is debating me tooth and nail and im just curious to see what you guys think
""yea but she's not a bodybuilder and I doubt she's worried about losing muscle like a bodybuilder does. And carbs do make you fat. They're a waste of time. They're comfort food. They fill you up and make you feel satiated. They're sugar and sugar is burned before fat. Don't care what the magazines say. They contradict themselves all the time, even in the same issue. If you want to lose weight you will be hungry there's no choice in the matter. The only reason I eat carbs is because I do sh*t in the gym like leg press 28 plates. If I didn't have carbs and other food I'd pass out. I doubt lizzy is doing anything like that.
You wanna get ripped then cut out 80% of the carbs you are eating right now and up the cardio. All you're allowed to eat is protein, fat (good fats), and salad & green veggies. If you get hungry eat a friggin head of lettuce.
As far as cycling the carbs. Yeah, have a cheat meal once in a while to stay sane.
And cut the alcohol out"
and then i called him out and said he was way off base telling this girl to cut out all carbs and up the cardio
"I'm way off base ok. Post pic and we'll see who's off base. You spend too much time on bodybuilding message boards instead of bio classes.
Your body breaks down sugar before anything for energy. All carbs are SUGAR. They get broken down into GLUCOSE.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. You are what you eat. If you wanna be soft and fluffy then eat soft and fluffy things like breads, pasta, rice, cake and whatever else is made with carbs. If you want to be a lean piece of meat then eat exactly that.
Again, post pic and show us your results. I've already seen a pic of you and anyone taking advice from you over me is insane.
A calorie is not a calorie. If I eat 4000 calories a day that is 90% carbs and the rest protein and fat am I gonna make huge muscular gains? No I'm not because a fu*kin carb doesn't build muscle.
I'm off base? hah. post pic."
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Post by mrbeefy on Feb 9, 2007 9:03:18 GMT -5
My opinion...he has "some" things close...but not actually correct.
I would not go into a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
Wouldn't be fair ;D
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Post by gti steve on Feb 9, 2007 9:06:39 GMT -5
first thing that sets off a flag in my mind that hes a complete idiot:
"carbs make you fat"
WHAT?!!??!
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Post by masterschamp on Feb 9, 2007 11:39:21 GMT -5
Excess carbohydrates DO make you fat, excess fat makes you fat, AND, excess protein makes you fat....anything to an excess that causes you caloric intake to go ALOT higher than your energy expenditure will make you fat. That being said, aside from his attitude, I don't feel he was THAT far from being correct. Carbs CAN make you fat, and IMO the main reason such a high percentage of Americans are way overweight is because of an excessive consumption of carbohydrates. Carbs are the "feel good" food because they do satiate the "sweet tooth" alot of people have developed. Ingestion of carbs leads to an insulin release and if that is not used up for energy purposes, the body stores it as fat. Eat all the carbs you want.....but you better realize how much work it's gonna take to burn that as fuel. Most people don't expend anywhere near enough energy to justify the amount of carbs they take in. And ALOT of people ingest the majority of their carbs after 3 PM till right before bed....now how are you gonna burn those up if your activity level winds down towards the end of the day. Throughout the 80's and into the 90's all we heard was "to lose weight, cut the fats", yet that has been the time period in which the overweight phenomenon has grown the greatest! I DO believe that of the 3: protein, fats, and carbs , that carbs is the nutrient most likely to contribute to obesity. I also believe that excessive carbohydrate consumption is responsible for the spiralling rates of adult onset diabetes in this country. Finally, metabolic rate varies from one person to the next and that HAS to be taken into consideration when ANY discussion of diet occurs. Some people are simply more carb sensitive than others. You can cause your body to switch to burning fats, including stored bodyfat, for it's primary fuel source over carbs by eating a diet that is LOW, NOT NECESSARILY DOWN TO ZERO,carbs and higher in fats...and there ARE GOOD FATS! Look to any of my posts cocerning diet in my training log for a further explanation of my take on dieting.
Keith
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Post by gti steve on Feb 9, 2007 12:59:28 GMT -5
the reason why carbs are always looked at as "they make you fat" is because excess consumption of them DO make u fat. the reason being is that they are so easy to eat. eating carbohydrates release endorphins in the body that allow us to feel satisfied after eating them. like after eating a nice plate of macaroni and bread, i always feel like im on a high. of course, i feel guilty for eating it but thats not the point.
the reason carbs have gotten such a bad rap is YES they are energy, and YES people over indulge in them because they eat more than they expend, but thats like anything else! protein, fat, carbs! saying carbs make you fat is as ludacris as "if you eat fat, you get fat". to a certain point its true, but to single of a very vital macro-nutrient is absurd. and to even go as far as saying "carbs dont build muscle" is even more far fetched.
CARB MYTH #1: CARBOHYDRATES MAKE YOU FAT
The real culprit is excess calories. Calories, the fuel derived from all three macronutrients--carbohydrates, protein and dietary fat--increase the body's ability to manufacture bodyfat. Carbs have gotten a bum rap because research shows that lower-carbohydrate diets are effective for obese individuals, who are extremely overweight and seldom exercise.
For the individual trying to build metabolically active muscle tissue, carbs are a must-have. They fuel the body for exercise, help drive protein into muscles for growth and prevent the breakdown of hard-earned muscle mass. In addition, weight-training individuals store a disproportionate amount of their carbohydrate intake within muscles, called muscle glycogen. Only after glycogen stores are full will carbs seriously impact bodyfat stores.
MYTH BUSTER: How many carbs you should eat depends on your metabolism and how hard you train, but a good starting point is about 2 grams per pound of bodyweight per day.
CARB MYTH #3: CARBS DON'T BUILD MUSCLE
Carbohydrates directly support muscle-building by fueling muscles, helping them to remain anabolic. Energy-starved muscles quickly fall out of an anabolic state and fail to grow.
Carbs also create a special hormonal environment that plays a critical role in growth--they initiate the release of insulin, which increases protein uptake by muscles. Insulin also helps muscles take in testosterone, the body's chief muscle-building hormone.
MYTH BUSTER: Besides eating enough carbs for the day, eat an adequate portion in your post-training meal, anywhere from 70-100 grams for growth and repair.
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Post by masterschamp on Feb 9, 2007 13:34:20 GMT -5
That is exactly what I'm talking about....ANYTHING eaten in excess including carbs will make you fat. The reason I view carbs as the main culprit is because IMO they are the most likely to be overeaten. You'd have to be a REAL IDIOT to suggest that eating carbs makes you fat just because they are carbs. But I DO think that the average American eats WAY too many carbs per day and as a result becomes FAT!! I think maybe that was the point that other guy was trying to make? Carb consumption in this country IS a problem....again refer to the increase not only in obesity, but the increase in adult onset diabetes...that is not caused by eating too much fat or protein. You can make fats the primary energy source by taking your body through a metabolic shift, while maximizing the body's anabolic response to food by eating a high fat high protein diet during the week, followed by one or two days on increased carbohydrate comsumption on the weekend. The higher fat and protein intake, coupled with the low carb intake during the week, maximizes GH and Testosterone release, while the increased carb consumption on the weekend leads to an anabolic response because of the insulin release. In addition, as fat becomes the preferred source of fuel(energy) for the body, stored bodyfat is used as well. So long as high carb consumption is limited to the weekend, the body will remain in a "fat for fuel" state. Another benefit to dieting in this manner is that after the initial shift has taken place, there are no more energy "swings" as is common when carbs are a primary fuel source....your energy levels remain constant throughout the day. I have dieted this way for all of my contests in the past and let me assure you, lack of energy and muscle loss was NEVER a concern. I fact, I was able to to build muscle AND burn fat at the same time dieting in this manner. My strength levels did not dip and I actually increased the measurements of specific muscle groups WHILE LOSING FAT! Never came into a show "flat" or "spilled over' either, and NEVER required any type of elaborate carb depleteing/carb loading cycle. And just to demonstrate NOTHING is written in stone AND individual variances HAVE to be allowed for.....Even in the off season I probably NEVER go over 250-300 grams of carbs per day at a BWT of 215+, and I NEVER have supplemented with post workout carbs...my progress has been fine.
Keith
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Post by gti steve on Feb 9, 2007 13:42:06 GMT -5
Excellent points Keith. And just for reference, the guy was actually saying "carbs make you fat" and meant it in the literal sense that carb consumption of ANY kind leads to fat storage.
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Post by masterschamp on Feb 9, 2007 13:50:21 GMT -5
Excellent points Keith. And just for reference, the guy was actually saying "carbs make you fat" and meant it in the literal sense that carb consumption of ANY kind leads to fat storage. If that's the case, Steve, then don't waste your time arguing with the guy. You can choose either carbs OR fats for your energy source, AND you can structure your diet to shed fat either way ...I just respond better to the "fat for fuel" regimen. People who are unwilling to see that there are always aternative sides to every issue are, in effect, blind!I suspect he is a fat for fuel person too, but fails to understand that just because it is HIS preferred method it does not make it the ONLY correct method...again, Steve, don't waste your time. Keith
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Post by gti steve on Feb 9, 2007 14:05:58 GMT -5
Points well taken.
Thanks!
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Post by Intensity on Feb 9, 2007 15:05:39 GMT -5
I know it's easy to say but I totally agree with Keith! For clients, I use Fat as energy source and for others, Carbs! Individuallity and preferences will determine which is the best! And speaking of individuallity, I use carbs all contest prep… never going under an average of 130g a day while the fat is around 35g… In fact, i prefer (the key word here: Prefer) to use carbs instead of fat because it makes me feel stronger, fuller and happier Carbs are not evil, in fact the MAJORITY of those i fallow better react to Carbs as energy source… CARBS CARBS CARBS!!!! ;D Mo
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Post by gti steve on Feb 9, 2007 15:09:09 GMT -5
I know it's easy to say but I totally agree with Keith! For clients, I use Fat as energy source and for others, Carbs! Individuallity and preferences will determine which is the best! And speaking of individuallity, I use carbs all contest prep… never going under an average of 130g a day while the fat is around 35g… In fact, i prefer (the key word here: Prefer) to use carbs instead of fat because it makes me feel stronger, fuller and happier Carbs are not evil, in fact the MAJORITY of those i fallow better react to Carbs as energy source… CARBS CARBS CARBS!!!! ;D Mo Thanks Mo! Great points as well!
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jbig
Novice Bodybuilder
Posts: 169
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Post by jbig on Feb 9, 2007 19:08:08 GMT -5
yea but she's not a bodybuilder and I doubt she's worried about losing muscle like a bodybuilder does. And carbs do make you fat.
Yeah, if you eat too many without doing exercise.
They're a waste of time. They're comfort food. They fill you up and make you feel satiated. They're sugar and sugar is burned before fat.
The building block for all carbs is sugar but it's more complicated than that.
Don't care what the magazines say. They contradict themselves all the time, even in the same issue. If you want to lose weight you will be hungry there's no choice in the matter.
Maybe losing weight HIS way. There are more 'sensible' options for losing weight.
The only reason I eat carbs is because I do sh*t in the gym like leg press 28 plates. If I didn't have carbs and other food I'd pass out. I doubt lizzy is doing anything like that.
Zzz.
You wanna get ripped then cut out 80% of the carbs you are eating right now and up the cardio. All you're allowed to eat is protein, fat (good fats), and salad & green veggies. If you get hungry eat a friggin head of lettuce.
Your brain can't burn fat. Yes, protein can be converted into carbs but I'm not sure of the specifics of this process and I doubt you eat enough protein to sufficiently fuel your brain for a day.
As far as cycling the carbs. Yeah, have a cheat meal once in a while to stay sane.
Oh, you softie.
And cut the alcohol out"
I'm way off base ok. Post pic and we'll see who's off base. You spend too much time on bodybuilding message boards instead of bio classes.
Your body breaks down sugar before anything for energy. All carbs are SUGAR. They get broken down into GLUCOSE.
Not sure if this is quite right, just because carbs have a sugar molecule or two (lol) doesn't make them a sugar, thats why they are two different catagories. According to his theory, a chocolate bar and brown rice/pasta are 'broken down' at the same speed.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. You are what you eat. If you wanna be soft and fluffy then eat soft and fluffy things like breads, pasta, rice, cake and whatever else is made with carbs. If you want to be a lean piece of meat then eat exactly that.
Again, post pic and show us your results. I've already seen a pic of you and anyone taking advice from you over me is insane.
A calorie is not a calorie. If I eat 4000 calories a day that is 90% carbs and the rest protein and fat am I gonna make huge muscular gains? No I'm not because a fu*kin carb doesn't build muscle.
You don't see many 'ripped' powerlifters or strongmen. Maybe carbs don't BUILD muscle but they certainly HELP.
Some things he gets right, some things not. I hate it when people pretend to know everything but it just makes them look foolish when they get it wrong. I didn't know too much about this but after 10 minutes of net research I was a bit more clued up.
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jbig
Novice Bodybuilder
Posts: 169
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Post by jbig on Feb 9, 2007 19:10:24 GMT -5
Oh, and I forgot to add... It sounds like he's giving advice to an average woman (in a fitness sense) and she most likely has a job to do, maybe kids, other responsibilities. I'm pretty sure eating no carbs will make you MENTALLY tired, probably cause the immune system to break down a bit as well.
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Post by masterschamp on Feb 9, 2007 19:57:01 GMT -5
jbig: First off, I'm in agreement with most of what you are saying bro, but don't assume everyone cannot function on very low and/or even zero carbs. I go below 30 grams a day, M-F, for at least 16 weeks out and from 8 on out I only get what are in 2 large salads per day.....almost zero. I never have trouble with my energy levels and apparently, (some may think otherwise!! ), my brain function is just fine, as is my immune system. And I am NOT some beach bum with nothing to do but train,eat and sleep...... I have a 23 year career as a Guidance Counselor, I am a father of four, one of whom who has CP, is in a wheelchair and requires alot of extra care, I coach in a rec league for handicapped children, I am the strength coach at the local HS, AND I coach Pop Warner football. I maintain a 3400 square foot home on nearly 2 acres of land (ALOT of yard care!!), share every single household responsibility AT LEAST 50% of the time with my wife, wake at 4 AM to train every day in addition to doing a second workout in the afternoon every day,and I cook and prepare all my meals. There is PLENTY more I could go on with,but an active(to say the least) lifestyle DOES NOT mean you can't function without carbs. AGAIN...it ALL is about individual needs and differences. There is NO ABSOLUTE RIGHT OR WRONG way to diet. When anyone starts to say they are right and somebody else is wrong they begin to lose all credibility with me. You'll NEVER hear me tell someone they are wrong when it comes to 'bodybuilding" dieting, but I will ALWAYS tell them what works for me might not work for you...doesn't mean either of us is "wrong". I've been in this game for 2 decades and if there is one absolute I have learned in regard to dieting it is that there are NO absolutes!! Don't be so bent on proving this guy wrong...he may not articulate his point in a clear, dignified manner, but there are valid points to much of what he says. Keith
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jbig
Novice Bodybuilder
Posts: 169
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Post by jbig on Feb 9, 2007 20:38:44 GMT -5
Keith, I completely hear what you are saying and agree totally. I almost wrote something before to clear up things I said that may have been misinterpreted... From what I could see, the woman who posted originally (?) was probably not doing much exercise and was eating pretty much what she wanted. If you go from doing that, to eating no carbs and doing a hell of a lot of cardio... I think she would get burnt out very quickly. The human body is an amazingly adaptive thing, but sometimes it doesn't like to be SHOCKED with new things although in the case of P/RR/S we take advantage of this. I didn't mean to imply that NO ONE could keep their engines revved without carbs, I just implied this woman may have trouble. I know a lot of people on this board follow strict diets that involve them cutting carbs almost completely (you included!). I agree, it's whatever works for individuals. As for proving the guy wrong... I wasnt quite on a mission I did agree with some of his points but due to his delivery and general attitude, yes I gave him a bit of stick but it was mainly just kidding around for the benefit of WotW. Maybe he acts differently in real life but I can't imagine talking to someone so close minded and (seemingly) arrogant. I try to carry myself on forums as I would having a normal conversation. Christ, you are busy! Remember to take 5 minutes out once in a while to relax!
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Post by masterschamp on Feb 9, 2007 22:24:03 GMT -5
jbig, No....I didn't take it like you were coming off half baked at all...I meant that as a general response to anyone who thinks there is only one side to any argument. As far as you proving him wrong, I was implying that you can't argue with someone who thinks their thought process is flawless and refuses to acknowledge a differing point of view. And, yes, I agree, his tone was VERY condenscending as well as arrogant . I certainly don't see you in that way.I just feel that those of us who employ low carbs were not well represented by the manner in which he tried to put forth the arguement. I just didn't want anyone to get the impression that low carbs is not a workable option for a bodybuilder who is busy!! The manner in which he expressed himself was poor to say the least. NOT a side effect of the low carb diet....that's just a personality disorder!! ;D
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Post by beckie on Feb 9, 2007 22:38:30 GMT -5
agreed Keith,he was making some very big generalisations-ie carbs make you fat,everyone should eat low carb etc. he wouldn't get very far as a trainer especially with ecto body shapes,they all end up ripped with no muscle and that would look gross!! before I became a trainer i believed everyone needed carbs but in my current experience,I have clients that lose weight on minimal carbs and feel fine,whilst I need at least 150-200g a day to maintain or lose fat... There are some people in this world that no matter what you say you will never 'win' the argument or change their mind,so its better just to leave them to stew in their own juices!
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Post by Tim Wescott on Feb 10, 2007 8:30:06 GMT -5
This guy sounds like just another internet expert parroting some information he read somewhere. The fact that he wants to compare pics tells me he`s a friggin` jerk and will be one no matter if eats carbs or doesn`t !! I woulkdn`t argue with him.....years ago I argued with tons of people on boards..what a waste of time and energy. A good debate is one thing,but this guy`s a toolshed!
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Post by gti steve on Feb 10, 2007 8:42:36 GMT -5
His response to every statement i make is "post pics"
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