Jumping off the OPINION thread...

[Sal Paradise]

OK -
I was thinking to post this question but after reading the thread about carbs I HAD to!

Here is my dilema..
I am extremely carb phobic when i am dieting as I am now.
I have always belived you have to have some to keep the muscles 'full'. But after reading the posts from Keith I may be rethinking this.
My mental block is this.
When I wake up I have been led to believe that one should injest some carbs to stop the catabolic nature of sleeping all night without food. But I hate to have carbs first thing and I don't even feel a need for them until mid morning or noon.
I usually have both egg whites and whole eggs in my protein shake and a splash of skin milk.
Usually a total of about 60-70 grams of protein.
My other mental block is the post-workout carbs.
I workout later in the evening and always feel like fighting myself to ingest some kind of 'quick acting carb' to feed the muscle after the workout. well i know from personal history that cutting my carbs out in the evening helps drop fat.
BUT I am worried about not maximizing muscle growth after the crushing workout I just had. My post workout shake is very similar to my morning shake sometimes without the eggs to supposedly get the faster acting protein in there instead.

So my real problem is with the carbs, types of carbs and timing.
During the day I will use brown rice or oatmeal in moderation to a total of 100-150 grams most days.
Some days it may be much less.
But again the main issue is with the early am carbs and postworkout carbs.
I am just worried about the muscle loss or lack of muscle gained from only using protein at these times.

Pleasae shoot some opinions at me!!!

Thanks,
Sal

[OptimumJoe]

I have not had a problem with gaining weight with late night PW carbs. I fininsh my workouts around 8-9pm and have about a 100g of complex carbs with raisins. I do believe in kick starting the anabolic phase with carbs and protein.

As for breakfast, I don't really see your problem. Why wouldn't you want bkfst carbs? Pretty much all you take in will go to glycogen storage if you have a daily low carb diet. If you're over 120lbs of lean muscle you should be able to handle 200g of carbs a day. If you think they make you fat then have them only in the bkfst/pw meals.

Personally I would want to start the anabolic, or at least anti-catabolic phase, at the most important times and bkfst/pw are those times. Carbs help boost insulin, which fights catabolism.

Obviously everyone is different in how they feel and look with lots of carbs, but I wouldn't have it any other way. My $0.02

[Sal Paradise]

Thanks rowtogrow.
I don't usually eat breakfast carbs simply because I don't feel hungry enough for them
Lately - while dieting I get tothe gym and do the treadmill/cardio stuff and then come home but even then I don't have a desire to eat the carbs.
That and I figure if I'm doing the cardio on a semi-empty stomach and it's burning fat why would I chose to throw in the carbs and put a halt to the process. I'm sure I'm missing something in my logic but that is also part of the reason for the question.

Again it's mostly a "carb phobic" thing but I do want to get some opinions.


Sal

[masterschamp]

Sal,
I think you should listen to your body.........I really believe you are not craving the carbs because your body does just fine without them. I have NEVER eaten in the AM before my first workout, and I believe it greatly enhances the GH release induced by the exercise, in fact I avoid carbs for 3.5 hours before my PM workout for the same reason...if you eat carbs, that release will be blunted. Also, I have NEVER done the post workout carb thing either. I just eat what is a regular meal for me...generally beef and a salad. I must have said it a million times...no one is RIGHT ..no one is WRONG...you have to do what works for you. Obviously some people need the carbs, but don't ever believe that is the case for everyone...it NEVER has been for me, and there are other guys I know who prefer a low carb diet. True..that number is smaller, percentage wise, than guys I know who eat way more carbs, but that might be because that is easier for some as well. I will tell you this, I have never seen anyone who utilized a low carb diet correctly, which means it has to employed over a significant period of time, rather than a last minute "trick", come into a show flat. I have never seen a low carb dieter, as mentioned above, come in "spilling over" either. That generally happens to someone who has cut their carbs greatly just for their depletion phase, and didn't judge the load amount correctly. I really don't have a depletion phase and I only have to carb at about 100-130 grams, W-F to be extremely full and tight! Again...I've had TONS of success dieting this way...but again..THAT"S ME. I think maybe that sounds like you too, Sal!!

Keith

[beckie]

You have to give yourself more credit! What you have said makes perfect sense because thats what works for YOUR body. I have a client that is very similar and I can't get carbs into her until lunchtime-and she feels fine on that! Post workout is individual-I have learnt that a PWO carb source is not always the best for bodytypes that struggle to lose fat and in fact you may be better off simply have a shake and some BCAA's because that doesn't spike your insulin levels like carbs do...
If you get results with what you are doing,there is no reason to change it just because science tells you to eat a certain way! We all have slight variations in our biochemistry and alot of us are still trying to find the right combination!

[Sal Paradise]

Thanks all!
Keith - I have found myself more and more moving away from carbs in general.
I do eat them a couple of times during the late morning and early afternoon but that's about all I seem to need.
I would normally cook up 2 cups of brown rice and I find it hard to put half of it down in a days time period.

That being said there are some days that I just seem to need more carbs. Particularly after heavy legs or other extremely taxing days, be it workouts or other. Sometimes it's just workiong on a car for 8 hours.
But even then I find a slower carb more in line with my needs and I may have as much as 3/4 cup of brown rice at one sitting but that would be it. After that it seems right back to my "normal" routine.

I am guessing at times like these it's like your weekend where you get more carbs than during the week.
I just get them when my body signals me to. And the day of the week does not seem to matter as much.

Thanks again for everyone's reply.

Sal

[Sal Paradise]

I guess my biggest thing is simply a mental block that has been there from hearing Sooooo many times we HAVE to do this or that at certain times of the day, etc.

It just reminds me of a story I told my wife just a couple of nights ago. So please forgive me going off topic.

But it is instilled in our brains so many times not to pick up strangers, don't do this or that.
Well, I was going home from the gym and it was 2 degrees out and the wind was blowing.
Just a mile from the house I saw a fellow walking home with what looked like a shopping bag.
Noe he was dressed warmly but I couldn't stop thinking I should offer this guy a lift.
It would only put me out 5 minutes at the most.
But did I? NO.
Why not?!?!? Simply because we have been trained not to.
I couldn't stop thinking about it for days and still think about it. Obviously.

Would it have been the safest thing to do? Well not the safest but the chances of something happening were probavbly slim to none.

I just think the situations are similar---simply a mental block of what I as an individual should do vs. the 'Common Knowledge" that so many claim is right.

Sorry for going off course.


Sal

[Tim Wescott]

All I have for my first meal is a whey shake mixed in water...then at PW I take in a small amount of complex carbs as a rule,but not always.depends on my goals and how I look,and have had no problem with either "method" resulting in muscle loss or lack of energy.

Carbs are a learned thing we teach the body...........we do not need them,and they are not essential.

as my day goes on,I may or may not eat more carbs at the next meal following PW,and very seldom eat many at night other than veggies or a couple of rice cakes to curb hunger/cravings.

Bottom line IMO is this Jeremy,if it`s working for you to eat this way,then just continue doing so,or experiment with carbs and see how you fare in the result department.......if you aren`t dieting for a show of course.

[Sal Paradise]

admin said:

Bottom line IMO is this Jeremy,if it`s working for you to eat this way,then just continue doing so,or experiment with carbs and see how you fare in the result department.......if you aren`t dieting for a show of course.

Ahhh, Hence my extreme apprehension at the current time.
It is 12 weeks today until the show.

Everything is falling in place as I would like but having only been at this for a very short number of years compared to some of you I just get paranoid about such things.
***No dig on the age there guys. I truly respect the tenure you have all put in. That's why my questions are here, not somewhere else.

I think as of right now I will simply stay the course with my lower carb regimen. It seems to be working and I feel fine doing so.

Thanks

[masterschamp]

salparadise said:

admin said:

Bottom line IMO is this Jeremy,if it`s working for you to eat this way,then just continue doing so,or experiment with carbs and see how you fare in the result department.......if you aren`t dieting for a show of course.

Ahhh, Hence my extreme apprehension at the current time.
It is 12 weeks today until the show.

Everything is falling in place as I would like but having only been at this for a very short number of years compared to some of you I just get paranoid about such things.
***No dig on the age there guys. I truly respect the tenure you have all put in. That's why my questions are here, not somewhere else.

I think as of right now I will simply stay the course with my lower carb regimen. It seems to be working and I feel fine doing so.

Thanks

Your decision makes total sense to me !! ;D


Keith

[OptimumJoe]

salparadise said:

admin said:

Bottom line IMO is this Jeremy,if it`s working for you to eat this way,then just continue doing so,or experiment with carbs and see how you fare in the result department.......if you aren`t dieting for a show of course.

Ahhh, Hence my extreme apprehension at the current time.
It is 12 weeks today until the show.

Everything is falling in place as I would like but having only been at this for a very short number of years compared to some of you I just get paranoid about such things.
***No dig on the age there guys. I truly respect the tenure you have all put in. That's why my questions are here, not somewhere else.

I think as of right now I will simply stay the course with my lower carb regimen. It seems to be working and I feel fine doing so.

Thanks

Good Luck in your show! If it's working for you, keep it up bro!

I've had the same experiences wondering how I should eat from all that I read on these boards, but at the end of the day I have to do what works for me.