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Post by ChrisC on Aug 9, 2004 9:03:42 GMT -5
When a discussion moves on to what bodybuilders had the best physiques, opinions are usually divided into different eras. Some prefer the massive physiques presented by current bb'ers like Ruhl, Coleman, Cutler and ushered in by Yates. Moving back some prefer the physiques of the 80s guys like Haney and Labrada. Moving further back, Zane, Segio, Nubret, Arnold, Viator. We could then go back to the 60s, etc, etc. Obviously I'm greatly simplifying the issue and there are exceptions in all eras.
One issue that isn't mentioned as frequently is the conditioning of the atheletes. There is a startling difference between the conditioning an elite bber in the 1970s and today. Today a physique like Frank Zane's might be called 'too small' by some, but what goes unsaid is that he would be considered to have poor conditioning - "soft" glutes and hams, relative to todays ultra low bodyfat and shredded competitors. Same for other top competitors of yesteryear - Arnold, Sergio, Draper, Scott, Reeves.
So here's the question: What are your thoughts on conditioning? Is leaner really better?
While I have immense respect for the dedication and work that goes into presenting the conditioing of Yates or Coleman, aesthetically I much prefer the conditioning of bbers in the 70s. To me, the conditoing of someone like Serge Nubret is perfect.
I also worry about the manner in which today's top amateurs and pros reach their level of conditioning. Again, the average joe talks about steroids as if they are some deadly drug that will knock you dead on the spot. Personally I think it is much more likely that a competitor will drop dead on stage thanks to the use of modern diuretics and other drugs used to acheive their awesome conditioning. There have been several notable occurences of competitors have "near misses" thanks to mis calculations in their use of diruetics. There is also a question as to the long term effects of dropping down to the incredibly low bodyfat of top competitors repeaetedly year after year.
Just curious to hear the thoughts of others.....
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Post by WireNWood on Aug 9, 2004 11:04:06 GMT -5
I'd have to agree that the aesthetics of those guys from the 70's was much more pleasing than what we're seeing today.
As has been mentioned here before ... there was a day when you'd have a magazine at the office (or wherever) with a picture of Serge or Arnold on the cover, and when the guys all saw it they'd often say something to the effect of "I wish I could look like that" and the women would get all bug-eyed and excited.
These days, with the current trends, a common reaction from both sexes goes more like "Eww! Who would ever wanna look like that?"
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Post by Tim Wescott on Aug 9, 2004 15:01:58 GMT -5
As far as ripped glute setting the standard for being in shape goes,I find it ridiculous.When did this occur? Arnold,Zane,Haney,Labrada,Ray,etc. were all in great condition but no ripped glutes. When did glutes become such a reknowned bodypart? They shouldn`t be in my opinion. Along with the ripped glutes we now have contest winners with huge guts. No contest ready bodybuilder should look like he`s pregnant. Yates set a new standard and drug use escalated in an effort to surpass him.Bodybuilding took a wrongg turn in the early to mid-nineties. With the new trend of rewarding more aesthetically pleasing physiques hopefully we can reverse the trend that bigger is better! Great conditioning but no big gut or sliced up glutes.A true bodybuilding legend....Lee Labrada!  |
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Post by ChrisC on Aug 9, 2004 16:02:32 GMT -5
Tim:
I agree with the glute thing, seeing 280lb men wedge their trunks up their behinds before they hit back shots on stage is not a good thing. (and sure as heck isn't going to help the popularity of bodybuilding any.)
I've gotta say that I don't see the trend in smaller physiques winning - smaller shows, yes, but Mr. O - I don't see it happening.
As for the bellies - I'm with you on that one - should be as unacceptable as synthol or implants..
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Post by Tim Wescott on Aug 9, 2004 16:59:44 GMT -5
i hear ya` Chris,and I too doubt that Ronnie or Jay will lose the Olympia soon to a guy like Darrem Charles,but I think gradually the powers that be in bodybuilding will make a transition towards the more pleasing physiques just to placate the public and to possibly save some lives.
People today,for the most parts younger people think that if you aren`t 275 pounds with ripped glutes that you aren`t a bodybuilder.
Time and again I`ve seen on the boards, guy`s saying they are waiting to compete because they aren`t heavy enough.
I try to tell them that it`s the look and not how much a person weighs .
Besides they never ask what you weigh on stage.
I`ve seen many a great middleweight BB get overlooked and dismissed over a bloated mass monster.
This would have never happened twenty years ago or so.
I hope things change soon,and I think they will.
With new pros like Mark Dugdale,Jimmy Canyon,Richard Jones,Dave Henry,etc. and vets like Darrem Charles,Melvin Anthony, Ahmad Haider,dexter Jackson,etc. the future look`s bright.
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Post by ChrisC on Aug 9, 2004 17:20:52 GMT -5
What's so amazing about that is that people act like 275lb ripped guys grow on trees.
There's literally a handful of guys who fit that description. If you disregard anyone with the bloated belly look, strange shaped bodyparts or just plain asymmetric or unproportioned. Actually, having just written that sentence I cannot think of one single competitor who fits that description.
What I do not understand is that surely it is in the interest of the promoters and the ifbb/npc to promote the more aesthetic guys - I cannot believe it is financially advantageous to promote the huge more extreme guys.
I think it is very telling that to this day the most famous (and profitable) bodybuilder(/governor) was 6 feet 235lbs.
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Post by Troyster on Aug 12, 2004 10:49:40 GMT -5
I'm a fan of a good balance. Bob Paris will always be my idol in terms of a "complete package". Chris, Tim I agree that there are too many incredibly conditioned athletes that are looked over because of a bloated mass monster. I don't find that as much in my side of competition in the CBBF/IFBB. In general (naturally sometimes you're left wondering WTH???), conditioning seems to come first, then size. For the first time in history, a bantamweight won the overall at one of my Provinces regional show (my equivalent in the North -- I took the south)!! Very cool to hear that. The guy deserved it though, no question. To be honest, I wouldn't want to have made that call. It was a pretty tough one. As far as "conditioning goes, though let's keep in mind that the majority of deaths and "injuries" due to diuretics occurred back in the very days you talk about Chris... many of those guys weren't dieting at all, they were only dropping water. Then there were others llike you mentioned, Zane for example, who did actually diet and come in looking quite incredible. These days, more knowledge seems to be applied and you don't see folks dropping off like flys. There are still a few stupid ones, but the knowledge is out there on how to safely drop water and come in shredded without putting yourself at risk. The problem is that at the Olympia, they combat the testing, and they're pushing the envelop of science further and further to where they're coming "full-circle" and we're back to days of "experimentation". For mass, Sergio will always be my favorite icon. I didn't mention Arnold cause he's the obvious one for all things from personality to conditioning (in relation to "the day") and will always be a big hero of mine. Yeah, I agree that guys like Labrada and Haney were much more aesthetically pleasing. On the other hand, there's something about guys like Ronnie and Cutler and Nasser (Nasser a few years back  ) that is impressive to me too. T |
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pscarb
Novice Bodybuilder
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Post by pscarb on Aug 13, 2004 2:42:00 GMT -5
although i respect the physiques of the earleir days i think i prefer the conditioning and muscle of the average Pro bodybuilder today physiques like Dexter Jackson, Chris Cormeir, Martinez, Darrem Charles just to mention a few...
yates set a peak that everybody tried to surpass and personally i dont think any body comes close apart from maybe Dextor....
Coleman is a great champion but i dont like his overall package but i do beleive that Mr Olympia is about being the best overall BB on the planet and we will never have a champion that is liked by all..... ;D
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Post by hossjob on Aug 13, 2004 11:49:51 GMT -5
i hear ya` Chris,and I too doubt that Ronnie or Jay will lose the Olympia soon to a guy like Darrem Charles,but I think gradually the powers that be in bodybuilding will make a transition towards the more pleasing physiques just to placate the public and to possibly save some lives. People today,for the most parts younger people think that if you aren`t 275 pounds with ripped glutes that you aren`t a bodybuilder. Time and again I`ve seen on the boards, guy`s saying they are waiting to compete because they aren`t heavy enough. I try to tell them that it`s the look and not how much a person weighs . Besides they never ask what you weigh on stage. I`ve seen many a great middleweight BB get overlooked and dismissed over a bloated mass monster. This would have never happened twenty years ago or so. I hope things change soon,and I think they will. With new pros like Mark Dugdale,Jimmy Canyon,Richard Jones,Dave Henry,etc. and vets like Darrem Charles,Melvin Anthony, Ahmad Haider,dexter Jackson,etc. the future look`s bright. I totally agree Tim! I always thought I'd wait to compete because I was scared to get below 150 pounds, but now I say, "Who cares?" I love this sport so I'm goin gto do it. Guys like Richard Jones, Melvin Anthony, Darrem Charles, Jimmy Canyon, Stan McQuay, are the way bodybuilders should look. Don't get me wrong, it's cool to look at Markus Ruhl, but come on, what the hell is in his shoulders? And there is no excuse to have a gut that protudes 3 inches past your pecs. That picture of Labrada is the best I've ever seen of him, he looks AMAZING, thanks for posting it. Tim, I'm jacked for my show and I hope I can have an aesthecally pleasing physique! Kyle |
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Post by J65 on Aug 14, 2004 5:27:35 GMT -5
Just my 2 cents worth.
I saw a guy on Ripley's Beleive it or Not a while back and he had something like 26 inch arms. Can't remember his name, but it looked unnatural and, IMO, added to the freak show stereotyping of bodybuilding and weight training.
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Post by ChrisC on Aug 14, 2004 15:05:35 GMT -5
John:
Sounds like you saw Greg Valentino. Welcome to the world of 'site enhancement'.
This basically involves injecting 'oil' (typically a mixture called synthol) into bodyparts to increase their size. Looks ridiculous. On some people it is very obvious like Valentino, but many bb'ers also use it.
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Post by J65 on Aug 14, 2004 15:20:22 GMT -5
John: Sounds like you saw Greg Valentino. Welcome to the world of 'site enhancement'. This basically involves injecting 'oil' (typically a mixture called synthol) into bodyparts to increase their size. Looks ridiculous. On some people it is very obvious like Valentino, but many bb'ers also use it. IMO, it did look ridiculous. The guy was about the same or even shorter in height than the babe hosting the show and his arms were almost the same height as her. ;D |
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) that is impressive to me too.
