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Post by ifearnoman on Dec 4, 2004 22:29:52 GMT -5
Well, I finally just sat down and watch the Conte interview..and it got me thinking. Who is REALLY natural? If everyone is doing it, how level IS the playing field, for the natural guy like me? The INBF and WNBF allegedly tests their competitors, but are they REALLY clean? As long as you know the active times, I think you could get away with passing a test...
And then, I think about myself. When I originally started lifting I was 109lbs. I am now about 127ish, and don't see much difference. Tim Montgomery the sprinter gained 28lbs of muscle in 8 weeks. I heard that, and I thought to myself "Man, what Iwould do for 28 lbs of solid muscle!" I would take the risks, and the side effects to just be that much heavier. I have looked into the darkside, and thought about crossing the line, but I think it is the long term effects that hold me back. Whether it be failing a test at work, or hearing others whisper, and start rumors.
I think everyday, how easy it would be if I was genetically gifted, but realize that I am not, so have to work THAT much harder to acheive my goals, which seem to come at a snails pace. I want so much to be at my goal weight, to one day step on stage when I hear my name announced, and to hear those friends and family that I love screaming for me when I hit a nice Front Double Bicep. I want to be a champ..I want to win..But I have to ask myself, is the price I will pay really worth it? Maybe this is just a weird rant, but it is what I think about everyday.
I am reminded of something Yoda said in Star Wars:
"If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will."
I still stand at the line...reluctant to cross...
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Post by sockrocker on Dec 5, 2004 3:44:05 GMT -5
it's not a line to cross, but a cliff to fall from
i have no ill opinion of anyone who chooses to do it, but I think that it is something larger than some people consider
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Post by GerryT on Dec 5, 2004 7:17:07 GMT -5
Great posts, guys. It is an individual decision which has to be made and I don't condemn anyone either way. I
know athletes of both persuasions and consider them friends.
But I respect anyone who has the strength not to cross that line or jump the cliff, as SR wisely put it.
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Post by Tim Wescott on Dec 5, 2004 7:49:45 GMT -5
I usually try to discourage drug discussion of any kind here, because it it gets too detailed, it is a terms of service violation of this boards policy. I could lose the board if drug use is advocated.......which I realize it`s not in this topics case!!  Besides,as stated, it`s up to the individual, and it`s a personal decision........... he or she has to live with. In this topics case,I will leave it up as it`s not advocating the use of drugs.............just a note to make you aware as the next thing you know ,I`ll have guys posting their cycles and dosages and this is something I think no board should allow, as there are too many kids on the net reading this crap, and following idiots who advocate the use, and usually the extreme abuse, of such drugs. Not trying to act like they don`t exist,just covering my ass! Don`t mean to come off like a dictator,as that`s not my intention just an FYI as this topic is definately acceptable!!  Carry on!! :Happy Spinner: |
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Post by 1705total on Dec 5, 2004 7:53:37 GMT -5
My whole problem is with the government. They want to step in and put a stop to this "drug" abuse, meanwhile tobacco kills and hurts many more people, and lets not start talking about acohol. The other problem is what we have already seen in our sport. The use of more dangerous underground drugs being used because the legit drugs are now banned.
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Post by Tim Wescott on Dec 5, 2004 7:56:32 GMT -5
Good points Steve!! The government is all about money from taxes ,and the tobacco and liquor industries supply plenty of revenue...........never mind the fact that tons of lives are lost and ruined because of it..............who cares right? Certainly not the people receiving the cash!!  |
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Post by GerryT on Dec 5, 2004 7:58:56 GMT -5
Not a matter of being a dictator, Tim. This is something I discourage with any of the young athletes I've coached.
You are absolutely correct. And if I saw anything specific
as you mentioned, I would delete it in a flash.
Preserving the forum and being a positive influence for young people is always top priority. And I think this thread sends a positive message to the young. I don't advocate it either, but the bottom line is that it is an individual choice.
P.S. Totally agree about alcohol and tobacco. Discourage
that just as much, and it does make the government seem hypocritical.
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Post by Tim Wescott on Dec 5, 2004 8:02:43 GMT -5
Thanks Ger !! :Thumbs Up: |
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Post by Intensity on Dec 5, 2004 9:16:34 GMT -5
I'm again drug use, because for me, training is at first a way to invest in my health and use illegal drug would be completly again my personnals values. But i know that it's an individual decision for all of us and i can accept that people around me take it! But the biggest problem i have with other taking drugs, is when they try to influence young guy in the gym or when they cheat and compete in natural even!  But anyway... Sometimes, i must admit that it gets me frutrated to see one of my training partner take approximatly 25 pounds in 8 weeks when he is on drug (and he wont forget to remind me his brand new 25 pounds every day )... when it takes me 3 years to add so many muscle mass (And it normally take him 3-4 years to do the same when he is natural)! But hey, i should remind me that i only do that for ME, so i got to let the comparaison beside And Ifearnoman (as a Star wars fan too): May the force be with you) ;D Do it for you, and when you will feel ready: go on stage! And what ever the result is, you would be proud of what you achieve! Mo (wich took 30 minutes to seach all these words in the french/english dictonary ;D) |
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Post by cavemuscle on Dec 5, 2004 9:38:32 GMT -5
I'm in an odd position here.  I dont condone it as a way of life, but I can see how our "win at all costs" culture can lead to it. I do agree that young athletes need to have it made clear to them that there consequences to using substances. On the other hand, I'm on HRT for wasting/lipodystrophy treatment from my chemo and post chemo meds. Does that make me a hypocrite? Brock |
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Post by Tim Wescott on Dec 5, 2004 9:40:30 GMT -5
Not in my opinion,Brock,your circumstances are different than most,ie. medical reasons!! Mo brings up some good points...........if a guy takes juice that`s his decision, but to compete in tested events, or encourage others,especially young people, are two things I can`t stand to see. If a person is contemplating taking roids, he should think long and hard,do a lot of research, and then be able to deal with any and all repercussions, if his decision is to the affirmative. I judge no one as far as this topic goes, and could literally care less who does what, but letting people make up thier own minds, and staying out of tested events,when you are using,are two things that I can`t stand,seeing people do!! |
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Post by Intensity on Dec 5, 2004 9:43:00 GMT -5
Not in mine too!
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Arbel
Novice Bodybuilder
Posts: 85
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Post by Arbel on Dec 5, 2004 9:58:11 GMT -5
to me it seems inevitable that some day i will fall to the dark side , if i wish to compete in an international level and gain a pro card . but i have lots of time to consider that ' i am not even going anywhere near pills and needles till i'm 24-25 , and maybe then i'l find a comfort zone for me and stop trying to get bigger .
it's all light years a head of me so i dont worry too much about it .
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Post by ChrisC on Dec 5, 2004 10:02:41 GMT -5
Using aas so you can compete in a local competition makes as much sense as fitting the family sedan with nitrous so you can get to the grocery store faster.
Sure you will get to the grocery store faster, but the engine was not designed to take the extra strain so don't complain when it burns out quicker.
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Post by Tim Wescott on Dec 5, 2004 10:06:14 GMT -5
Good analogy,and one that people should take into consideration before taking that plunge!!
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Post by GerryT on Dec 5, 2004 10:59:48 GMT -5
All excellent points. A good analogy I heard was comparing juice to car wax.
It can buff up a car, but it won't turn a Ford into a Cadillac.
There is no substitute for the hard work and diet.
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Milly
Novice Bodybuilder
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Post by Milly on Dec 6, 2004 12:54:21 GMT -5
Well, I finally just sat down and watch the Conte interview..and it got me thinking. Who is REALLY natural? If everyone is doing it, how level IS the playing field, for the natural guy like me? The INBF and WNBF allegedly tests their competitors, but are they REALLY clean? As long as you know the active times, I think you could get away with passing a test... And then, I think about myself. When I originally started lifting I was 109lbs. I am now about 127ish, and don't see much difference. Tim Montgomery the sprinter gained 28lbs of muscle in 8 weeks. I heard that, and I thought to myself "Man, what Iwould do for 28 lbs of solid muscle!" I would take the risks, and the side effects to just be that much heavier. I have looked into the darkside, and thought about crossing the line, but I think it is the long term effects that hold me back. Whether it be failing a test at work, or hearing others whisper, and start rumors. I think everyday, how easy it would be if I was genetically gifted, but realize that I am not, so have to work THAT much harder to acheive my goals, which seem to come at a snails pace. I want so much to be at my goal weight, to one day step on stage when I hear my name announced, and to hear those friends and family that I love screaming for me when I hit a nice Front Double Bicep. I want to be a champ..I want to win..But I have to ask myself, is the price I will pay really worth it? Maybe this is just a weird rant, but it is what I think about everyday. I am reminded of something Yoda said in Star Wars: "If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will." I still stand at the line...reluctant to cross... let me put this in another perspective for you. we tend to base our progress on total bodyweight ie 128lbs, 150lbs 200lbs. now you say you have gone 109 when you started to only 127lbs presently. Now you think he if I crossed over I could add another 20-30lbs...possibly. BUT fact of the matter is yes you only weigh 127lbs, then again you used to weigh 109lbs, hence you gained 18lbs which is a 20% increase in totoal bodyweight. To me that improvement is leaps ahead over what you stsrted with. Most guys who weight train today start at 150, train a couple months, get up to 155-160, think they have peaked genetically because they have tried everything to gain size(cough>BULLsh*t<cough), go to the darkside and get to 180 and never surpass that except for briefly the rest of thier lives. My point is and I see how you have been picked on some of the boards, is that you have progressed a hell of alot more then most people when you look at the big picture. My point is dont worry about what some olympic athlete has done. Continue doing and improving on what ifearman is doing to make those gains you have already made |
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Post by str8flexed on Dec 6, 2004 16:35:22 GMT -5
Well, I finally just sat down and watch the Conte interview..and it got me thinking. Who is REALLY natural? If everyone is doing it, how level IS the playing field, for the natural guy like me? The INBF and WNBF allegedly tests their competitors, but are they REALLY clean? As long as you know the active times, I think you could get away with passing a test... And then, I think about myself. When I originally started lifting I was 109lbs. I am now about 127ish, and don't see much difference. Tim Montgomery the sprinter gained 28lbs of muscle in 8 weeks. I heard that, and I thought to myself "Man, what Iwould do for 28 lbs of solid muscle!" I would take the risks, and the side effects to just be that much heavier. I have looked into the darkside, and thought about crossing the line, but I think it is the long term effects that hold me back. Whether it be failing a test at work, or hearing others whisper, and start rumors. I think everyday, how easy it would be if I was genetically gifted, but realize that I am not, so have to work THAT much harder to acheive my goals, which seem to come at a snails pace. I want so much to be at my goal weight, to one day step on stage when I hear my name announced, and to hear those friends and family that I love screaming for me when I hit a nice Front Double Bicep. I want to be a champ..I want to win..But I have to ask myself, is the price I will pay really worth it? Maybe this is just a weird rant, but it is what I think about everyday. I am reminded of something Yoda said in Star Wars: "If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will." I still stand at the line...reluctant to cross... Obviously there will always be cheaters no matter what and the INBF/WNBF's system isn't perfect but it's better than nothing and the best we've got. And seriously, the way I look at it is this way. If someone is going to be such a wuss as to cheat and try to pass the test... then more power to them. I hope they are on juice because they are going to need it if they want to beat me. They might beat me in the short term... but the same weak-mindedness that caused them to attempt to cheat in the first place, will be the same weakmindedness that will eventually allow me to beat them. -Layne |
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Ken B.
Novice Bodybuilder
Raw Iron Moderator
Nuff said!
Posts: 180
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Post by Ken B. on Dec 6, 2004 17:09:14 GMT -5
to me it seems inevitable that some day i will fall to the dark side , if i wish to compete in an international level and gain a pro card keep in mind I've read sevearl accounts of guys with incredible base development that *then* began augmenting with drugs (AS). They improved greatly and YET! they were not able to put on the amount of size that is winning today and they were NOT willing to go to the suicide extremes that some of these new guys are doing. I'd just think long and hard and be VERY REALISTIC before starting down a road (with good intentions) that may require OUTRAGEOUSLY extreme measures in the end anyway. At that point you too may decide not to go THAT FAR (into the really bad stuff/amounts) so the dream is gone yet you have done *some* possible damage already and to what end? Sorry - I don't mean to sound preachy just realistic. The sport today is a TOTAL MESS and until it's reformed - (if ever) I'd be careful about what is realistic. |
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Post by str8flexed on Dec 6, 2004 17:15:16 GMT -5
shadowboy - you can be competive and earn a pro bodybuilding card without drugs if you compete in the natural divisions.
this is the main reason I stayed away from steroids. Right now I can be competitive on a national level for my pro card in natural bodybuilding
if I were to take steroids and only be able to compete in the NPC or amature IFBB shows then for me to be competitive on a national level I would need to take an unhealthy amount of drugs.
I have nothing against those who responsibly use steroids as I think in small doses that you usually just get stronger and healthier... however, you aren't going to go pro in the IFBB at small doses these days unfortunately.
-Layne
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But anyway... 
