Training style, or genetics?

[Mrbig7]

I'm just looking for some opinions here. I have 2 friends who are competitive bodybuilders. Both are relatively short(one is 5'6", the other is 5'4") and weigh 230lbs & 205lbs respectively at a fairly lean off-season weight. The first one does everything right(training wise) to have awesome legs and is extremely strong to boot. I've seen him squat 700lbs for 3 reps(weighing around 255lbs) with only a belt and wraps. This squat was well below parallel. He does the typical thigh exercises(Squats, leg press, hacks, leg ext, etc...) with high & low reps & his all are done with an extremely full range of motion. His problem is no matter what he does, his thigh sweep will not improve & it throws off his whole physique. My other friend has an outer thigh sweep to die for. Looking at the way he trains legs, you wouldn't think this to be the case. Every leg exercise he does is well ABOVE parallel, almost partial reps. He says he's NEVER squatted or Leg Presses below parallel his entire life. He's also nowhere near as strong as my first friend. The only exercise he does differently are walking DB lunges. They both started out skinny, have close to the same years training under their belt, eat well & take a fair amount of gear. The first guy has excellent hamstrings & thick thighs w/nice teardrops, but the sweep is severely lacking making his legs appear underdeveloped from the front. The 2nd guy has excellent thigh sweep & his thighs appear VERY full from the front, but lack thickness from the side & his hams are no where near the other guys. I'm thinking this is more a genetic issue than a training issue, but wanted some other opinions.

[bodyfx]

As far as the thigh sweep thing...thats pretty much a genetic issue. As far as the difference in their hamstring size, that can of course be somewhat genetic as well, but its just as likely a training issue. More often than not you will see guys with great thighs only have mediocre hams, b/c they do not pay nearly enough attention to them, or do not train them will the same type of intensity as their quads.

[youngblood]

I agree with BodyFx, as it being genetic.
But I'll also add in something here (and I'm sure Eric knows this and/or has read this from CP)....
The muscles responsible for getting you out of that deep squat position are the teardrops (vastus Medialis), glutes, and hams. So when you don't go down to parallel, or all the way down, your working more of your vastus lateralis (outer sweep). So by your one friend not ever going deep, he's working more of his outer sweep. By your other friend going deeper, he's working more of his teardrops.
It's a combination of things, but if it's in the cards for his sweep to be "sweepless," then there isn't much he can do about it.
Maybe have him try not going to parallel and only do "half-squats"- or full rock bottom squats if your a 15 year kid claiming full rock bottom squats.

[cavemuscle]

Yep- I was griping about that same issue. Trainer Tom, AKA Massah, had me drop the ass to grass and go slightly below parallel. Switched from sumo deads to bent legged deads and now I'm getting a good sweep and my hams are developing.

Agree, have him stop his squat higher, save extensions for polishing up and add a deadlift for hams and glutes.

B

[oldtimer1]

Genetics is the most important factor in any athletic endeavor. I can use the most scientific training in the world. I can have the most dedication and will in training. I will never run a 4 minute mile. No amount of training will get me a NFL contract.

Sergio Oliva had an incredible work ethic. He worked very hard in the gym. He also had great genetics. He said his brother was a lot bigger than him. Most of his exercises were performed with a limited range of motion. Some will say he was using the continuous tension technique. I say he was just a little sloppy in training. Yet, many will argue and that includes me that he was the greatest bodybuilder ever in his prime.

The most important factors are in this order.
1. Genetics
2. Work ethic (don't discount how far this will take you)
3. Proper training

Our intentions in training is to see how much we can get out of our god given body. Will it be 100% of 60%? This is where your work ethic comes in.

[Mrbig7]

Good response, oldtimer1! Thanks for your input.. I was thinking along the same lines myself.. Thanks everyone else for your input as well. Keep the opinions coming...

[xenabeachgirl]

Here's my .02......

A good example of good genetics is my husband. I started training him 14 months ago when we met, and he has made absolutely phenomenal progress in that short of time. He's now my training partner, and most people think HE'S training ME! While he's only lost 15 lbs. in actual weight (from 235 to 220 at 5'10"), I estimate that he's put on around 15 lbs. of muscle, especially in the upper body, judging by his current physique. He's dropped from a 38" to a 33" waist. Prior to meeting me, his workouts were a lot more inconsistent, maybe circuit training twice a week.

Now, here's the kicker: he doesn't eat often enough, and although he tries to emphasize eating protein, he doesn't supplement with any shakes. He eats three times a day at most and doesn't drink enough water. While he eats better than the average American, it's far from being a bb diet, and still includes some "junk". He doesn't take any kind of supplements, not even a multivitamin. He thought about starting creatine, but I won't let him do that unless he commits to drinking more water.

Bottom line: he's an easygainer with great genetics, and I think if he'd started training years ago and committed to it, he could have made it to the National amateur level easily.

Compare that to myself, who struggles forever to gain another ounce of muscle on my frame; even if I look "bigger", I tend to chalk it up to the fat gain rather than pure muscle size.

Oh, yeah....he also has a very "loose" training style on several lifts, mostly arms and delts, but if I try to correct him, he swears he feels it just fine, and I can't really argue with his results!

[oldtimer1]

My post should read,"Will it be 100% OR 60%?

I have to proof read my posts better!

[1705total]

As a local judge of NPC shows I will say this,
No matter what your bodypart looks like you can beat a bigger one by being shredded.
What I mean is a guy with huge quads, but are smooth, will lose to a guy who is smaller but ripped.
Case in point Dim beating Ruhl at the English Grand prix.
There are many more examples

[str8flexed]

1400total said:

As a local judge of NPC shows I will say this,
No matter what your bodypart looks like you can beat a bigger one by being shredded.
What I mean is a guy with huge quads, but are smooth, will lose to a guy who is smaller but ripped.
Case in point Dim beating Ruhl at the English Grand prix.
There are many more examples

I wish you would have been a judge at my NGA show