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Post by EBA84 on Jul 29, 2007 18:04:01 GMT -5
Eric, you make anyone look like a swimmer! You are once again so right, its that final shrink wrapped look thats the hardest aspect to achive. The two guys in the middle beat me. They were very conditioned and I wasn't. I was initially very upset but after I saw the pictures I understood why and hit the diet even harder. I ended up beating both of them a month later. |
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Post by RUBICON19 on Jul 29, 2007 19:28:30 GMT -5
Randy....I think you answered you own question...............you have quality muscle, it's your conditioining you have to take to the next level. Did you honestly do everyhting you could have to come in peeled? One mistep here or there could make all the difference iin the world. With all the experience I have, I now rely on someone else to do my diet for me ...Eric Brugh. The results have been terrific....maybe you should consider having someone take over the nutrirional aspect of your contest prep. It's the best move I could have made. Keith Keith you are seriously missing my point. Let me post some pics. If BBing is about these physiques than i DO NOT want to be a BBer!!!!!!!!!!!! You dont uinderstand me. BBing is NOT ALL about conditioning!!! Its about: (in no particular order) MUSCLE SIZE CONDITIONING PRESENTATION OK So the guys who beat me had: Some great conditioning! They did NOT have: MUSCLE SIZE PRESENTATION (Some of the most horrible posing ever displayed) I had: VERY good conditioning More muscle than almost all MUCH better presentation. I know my poses at least!!! Where does that leave this? You do the math. I am not talking about your kind of conditioning here. You have muscle to go with it! That wins shows. How could you expect to win anything without the muscle you have. Just the conditioning. if conditioning is all that is needed than why do you lift so hard and heavy??? You understand me yet? |
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Post by RUBICON19 on Jul 29, 2007 20:16:45 GMT -5
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Post by RUBICON19 on Jul 29, 2007 20:21:22 GMT -5
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Post by RUBICON19 on Jul 29, 2007 20:25:30 GMT -5
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Post by RUBICON19 on Jul 29, 2007 20:27:31 GMT -5
EVERYONE in these pics beat me. Oh, all except 1 guy. The biggest guy in a couple of them. He placed lower than me. He is the only one out of ALL of them.
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Post by masterschamp on Jul 29, 2007 20:46:36 GMT -5
Honestly....if you would have nailed your conditioning you would have won going away. there was no way they could have denied you then. More muscle than anyone up there, but the judges were looking for conditioning at the expense of size.....not that I wouldn't have voted for you,or that the other guys were unbelievable in the conditioning department either. Like I said previously...you have good size, but you just have to take it up a notch in the conditioning department. If you want to continue competing and really want to be successfull past the local, or at most small regional contest stage, and especially if you want to go against stiffer competition as in non-tested Level 4 or 5 NPC shows, you'll have to come in as tight as ABSOLUTELY POSSIBLE, and from what I can see in the pictures you could have come in ALOT tighter. Please accept my comments for what they are...I know you worked hard for this show, Randy....but I would not be doing you any favors if I didn't tell you where I think you need to improve. You have good size and muscle shape...... nail the conditioning and you will be tough to deal with on stage.
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Post by RUBICON19 on Jul 29, 2007 20:56:04 GMT -5
OH. I agree Keith, but ALL these guys beat me, and those are just some of them. There were even smaller guys than that!
I never said I had the best conditioning out there. I need to work on that to progress. As far as this show goes though. Hmmm...
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Post by beckie on Jul 29, 2007 21:37:45 GMT -5
I had a similar experience in my last show Randy-I had the 'right' shape and the symmetry but my conditioning let me down. they rewarded skinny ripped girls with no lats or delts and that pissed me off. I'm not saying I should have won,far from it,but the judging seemed so obscure and they didn't penalise people for bad posing either.
I was once told by a judge that I had to be uniformly conditioned ie hard all over,not just in some muscle groups and that was what I needed to work on.
Definitely talk to Sully,he knows his sh*t-my only observation is that you need to tighten up your legs..as for the size thing well my experience is similar to yours #arollseyes3zc#
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Post by oldnavy on Jul 29, 2007 23:26:20 GMT -5
Randy: I am a NGA, FAME and OCB judge. I agree with you. Had I been judging your show, you would not have placed where you did. You had better muscularity and in my opinion, a stronger package than the slightly better conditioned athletes next to you. I didn't see the guy who placed first, but for sure, you would not have placed fourth on my score card. Your posing was superior, too.
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Post by RUBICON19 on Jul 30, 2007 6:15:06 GMT -5
Hey ON. Thnaks. I think you may have seen one of the first place guys in the pics!!!!
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Post by masterschamp on Jul 30, 2007 6:24:57 GMT -5
One other thing, Randy....if that's the level of competition in the "OCB" or whatever organization you were competing in, you need to go somewhere else where there is some real competition and quality physiques. I'm not real thrilled with the judging to begin with, and if that's the best they got for that show, that was pitiful. The last two NPC shows I did those guys would not have placed in the top 15!....In fact, each one of them looked like they would be fighting for dead LAST! On the other hand, you ARE good enough to compete at a much higher level if you nail that conditioning. To me, you are wasting your time with that crew.
Keith
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Post by EBA84 on Jul 30, 2007 7:07:01 GMT -5
One other thing, Randy....if that's the level of competition in the "OCB" or whatever organization you were competing in, you need to go somewhere else where there is some real competition and quality physiques. I'm not real thrilled with the judging to begin with, and if that's the best they got for that show, that was pitiful. The last two NPC shows I did those guys would not have placed in the top 15!....In fact, each one of them looked like they would be fighting for dead LAST! On the other hand, you ARE good enough to compete at a much higher level if you nail that conditioning. To me, you are wasting your time with that crew. Keith Have to agree. After seeing the pictures, you should have placed higher. |
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Post by GerryT on Jul 30, 2007 9:45:34 GMT -5
Think you deserved better, Randy. Proud of you nonetheless and you are a champ.
Your day will definitely come. With peak conditioning, you will be unbeatable. Good job.
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Post by Intensity on Jul 30, 2007 10:27:39 GMT -5
Here is the positive guy who wants to chimed in! I had the opportunity to see the show live with Jen and Randy's familly and friends… and for a second, let's forget about the placing: IT HAS BEEN A REAL PLEASURE to see these two top athletes performing on stage! I was THRILLED! Being with them 1 day out from the show, during the final sprint of the prep, has also been a priviledge! Ok, so it seems that the contest placing is a major concern here  So here are my thoughts on the subject! Let me first say that i'll be completely honest about what I think, Randy is a friend, and that's why I know I dont need to embellish the truth! To give you an idea of the judging criterias, Ms A, Ms B and Ms C were competing against each other in the Woman Bodybuiding Master divition and the woman bodybuilding open… the results? Master 1- Ms A 2- Ms B 3 Ms C Open 1- Ms C 2- Ms A 3- Ms B As my fellow Canadian friends would say: HEIN?  As far as Randy goes, I had him in 2nd in the Novice and in the Open (No lower than 3 in both categories). Randy was also in all honesty the best poser on stage… and one of those with the best proportions! I've been surprisingly impressed by him! BRAVO! And the rest of the show? I cant say that it has been run very well… it sometimes lacked professionnalism… but one thing is for sure, I dont agree that the caliber was so-so… in fact the 1st place winners of the open short, medium and tall were very, veeeeery competitive! That was a long post, but what is truly important to know is that both Randy and Jen were in awesome shape… and seeing them on stage has been GREEEEAT! You guys are the BEST! |
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Post by QuietBob on Jul 30, 2007 11:16:57 GMT -5
Randy,
We've talked, you know where I stand and you already know what you need to work on.
I scanned through all the pics from the show (via OCB boards) and Chuck Martin won the show running away. Simply outstanding. I urge you all to try and view some of the pics of this kid; his shoulder/tri complex is insane!
Randy, YOU CAN DO THAT!
With your size and lines, get your conditioning down and the judges won't even have to think about it.
Keith, with all due respect (and I truly mean it), we're talking vastly different arenas here. Natural, tested bodybuilding always takes conditioning over size, and this was an amateur, natural, tested show. It's difficult, if not impossible to compare with the NPC. A lot of new-comers to the sport do these shows and make the same mistakes we've all made--diet too hard and lose lots of muscle, think they're big until they strip the fat away, etc.
Having now done 8 shows with what I consider the 3 main "Natural" organizations, what many consider a bodybuilding (NPC/IFBB style?) physique is just different there. I don't judge better or worse (because I'm a fan of all and don't care what others do as long as they're honest with their organization), they're just different. I've never done NPC so can't personally attest to that, but lately I've competed with many former NPC competitors (who have been clean for the required time frame) and every one of them has stated something to that affect.
Having said all that, if somebody with size can diet properly, maintain size, and come into a natural show shredded, they will absolutely dominate because then the judges are faced with the group of guys who are conditioned, those who are big (and muscular) and then the guy who meets both criteria and will be the obvious winner.
Again, Randy, you can do that!
Keep up the hard work, and with new knowledge in hand the judges won't even have to think about your placing.
Bob
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Post by GerryT on Jul 30, 2007 11:25:58 GMT -5
Great post, Bob! At Team Universe (which is a tested event in the NPC), the welter weight won the overall and in my opinion it was well deserved. He was ripped and hard, more so than the light heavy and heavy weight winners.
Even many of the non tested shows are taking a second look at conditioning, and in some cases that seems to be a tie breaker.
Like Keith said, Randy, put it all together for the next one and with your symmetry and posing ability no sighted judge could possibly deny you.
You have great potential and your day is coming!
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Post by oldnavy on Jul 30, 2007 17:39:01 GMT -5
Six of my 20 contests have been NPC events. I have won trophies in all but one of them, my first show, which was the NPC Northern Kentucky. The next year, I went back to the NPC Northern Kentucky and placed Third against some very BIG men. I have also won an Open Bantam Weight Class in a NPC National Qualifier and have a two-year invitation to compete in the Nationals. A smaller man who is a natural athlete can compete and win in the NPC. I did it with excellent conditioning.
I am competing in my final amateur contest on August 18th, the 2007 NPC Alabama State Championships. I have entered the Open Lightweight Class, the Men's Masters 50+ Class and the Men's Masters 60+ Class. Last year, I placed 3rd in Bantam Weight and 2nd in Men's Master 60+ against a man who outweighed me by 60 pounds. LOL I am planning on winning the NPC Mr. Alabama 60+ title this year...with better conditioning.
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Post by masterschamp on Jul 30, 2007 18:23:54 GMT -5
This is my final comment on this as I feel everything I have said has been taken WAY out of context.
FIRST......Randy, I said alot of positive things about you...I am a no BS person and I think you have tons of potential. Could you have been better conditioned..yes. Now if I'm a bad guy for saying that then so be it, BUT anyone who tells you differently doesn't have your back at all....in this sport you need HONEST feedback, NOT a chorus of YES men!
SECOND....Bob...I made the NPC comment because I am not sure where Randy wants to go with this, but that's reality if he decides to go that route. AND NOT EVERYONE IN NPC SHOWS IS USING!! AFTER 9 YEARS OFF.... I WON BOTH SHOWS USING NOTHING BUT BALL BUSTING WORK AND DISCIPLINE.................I DON'T CARE WHO IS USING WHAT...I WILL NEVER USE THAT AS AN EXCUSE.....I WANT TO COMPETE AGAINST THE BEST......I'VE BEATEN A HELL OF ALOT OF GUYS WHO WERE USING EVERYTHING!!
THIRD............Anyone competing in "natural" shows who use drugs as an excuse for not being able to compete at other venues is setting themselves up for failure. You'll never be all you can because you already have a built in excuse for failure....not exactly a warrior's mentality in my mind. Alot of guys need to be more HONEST with themselves in relation to the true effort they have put forth, particularly when it comes to conditioning. I competed on June 23rd and July 14th....I started my contest prep on JANUARY 3rd! Not a SINGLE cheat meal, not a SINGLE missed workout, not a SINGLE missed cardio session....NO EXCUSES!!!
That did not come from a drug...that comes from that muscle that beats in your chest...it's called heart!
FOURTH.......with all respect to all here, I'm checking out for awhile...when I can't be open and honest, while still stating alot of positives, without being taken for "confused"or "mean" or "unaware" then it's time to check out for awhile. You want to see what conditioning and a total package are all about, WITH NO EXCUSES ABOUT ANYTHING...ESPECIALLY WHAT SOMEONE ELSE MAY BE 'TAKING",....I'll be at the NABBA NATIONALS in October ...."Ready" won't even be close to describing my condition... That muscle in my chest beats awfully strong!!
Keith
Randy....sorry if I offended you in any way. I just wanted to give you an honest opinion of what you needed to work on to reach your true potential. Good Luck.
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Post by sapphire on Jul 30, 2007 19:41:32 GMT -5
Randy I am sorry you were disappointed. I have the utmost respect and admiration for you. Contest prep is not easy.. in fact it was too difficult physically for me to do. Frrom my personal, completely unknowledgable point of view, you BY FAR blow the others away. I truly think they look skinny (Tour de France participants). BUT MC is a champ and a darn great guy, I would trust his opinion over mine any day. I hope you had fun.. and realize you have everything you need to be happy, with or without a trophy.  ;D |
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So here are my thoughts on the subject! Let me first say that i'll be completely honest about what I think, Randy is a friend, and that's why I know I dont need to embellish the truth! To give you an idea of the judging criterias, Ms A, Ms B and Ms C were competing against each other in the Woman Bodybuiding Master divition and the woman bodybuilding open… the results? 
;D