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Post by RUBICON19 on Jul 30, 2007 21:41:19 GMT -5
This is my final comment on this as I feel everything I have said has been taken WAY out of context. FIRST......Randy, I said alot of positive things about you...I am a no BS person and I think you have tons of potential. Could you have been better conditioned..yes. Now if I'm a bad guy for saying that then so be it, BUT anyone who tells you differently doesn't have your back at all....in this sport you need HONEST feedback, NOT a chorus of YES men! SECOND....Bob...I made the NPC comment because I am not sure where Randy wants to go with this, but that's reality if he decides to go that route. AND NOT EVERYONE IN NPC SHOWS IS USING!! AFTER 9 YEARS OFF.... I WON BOTH SHOWS USING NOTHING BUT BALL BUSTING WORK AND DISCIPLINE.................I DON'T CARE WHO IS USING WHAT...I WILL NEVER USE THAT AS AN EXCUSE.....I WANT TO COMPETE AGAINST THE BEST......I'VE BEATEN A HELL OF ALOT OF GUYS WHO WERE USING EVERYTHING!! THIRD............Anyone competing in "natural" shows who use drugs as an excuse for not being able to compete at other venues is setting themselves up for failure. You'll never be all you can because you already have a built in excuse for failure....not exactly a warrior's mentality in my mind. Alot of guys need to be more HONEST with themselves in relation to the true effort they have put forth, particularly when it comes to conditioning. I competed on June 23rd and July 14th....I started my contest prep on JANUARY 3rd! Not a SINGLE cheat meal, not a SINGLE missed workout, not a SINGLE missed cardio session....NO EXCUSES!!! That did not come from a drug...that comes from that muscle that beats in your chest...it's called heart! FOURTH.......with all respect to all here, I'm checking out for awhile...when I can't be open and honest, while still stating alot of positives, without being taken for "confused"or "mean" or "unaware" then it's time to check out for awhile. You want to see what conditioning and a total package are all about, WITH NO EXCUSES ABOUT ANYTHING...ESPECIALLY WHAT SOMEONE ELSE MAY BE 'TAKING",....I'll be at the NABBA NATIONALS in October ...."Ready" won't even be close to describing my condition... That muscle in my chest beats awfully strong!! Keith Randy....sorry if I offended you in any way. I just wanted to give you an honest opinion of what you needed to work on to reach your true potential. Good Luck. Keith. Lets not blow this out of the water. I appreciate your input. I understand what you are saying "NOW".. I said over and over that my conditioning could have been better. This we agree on. I also stated that I had more to offer than any of these guys. I still believe this is true. So this contest was run on conditioning alone!!! It seems as though you were agreeing with this type of judging although you do NOT fall into the conditioning ONLY catagory yourslef. I understand that size + conditioning will win hands down. This was not the case here. Thye had NO size as well as NO presentation. I am not offended by your words. No worries man. I think it got off on the wroing foot when you assesed the situation without knowing what actually took place. You were very quick to blame me for not being as hardcore as I should have been. You didnt even see the competition. Then you went on to say that thye should not even place. Just confusing signals. All in all I understand your point and I am trly not arguing that, but the fact still stands that in this contest I was BETTER than these guys. It is obvious. Hence the complaining about placement. I would not complain if i didnt deserve it. i placed 2nd last year! Did you hear me complain? NOPE! NEVER! You had to be there man. Anyway. i am babbling. No hard feelings. I am doing an NPC non tested show in Oct. That gives me 12 weeks. GAME ON! |
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Post by RUBICON19 on Jul 30, 2007 21:42:15 GMT -5
Here is the positive guy who wants to chimed in! I had the opportunity to see the show live with Jen and Randy's familly and friends… and for a second, let's forget about the placing: IT HAS BEEN A REAL PLEASURE to see these two top athletes performing on stage! I was THRILLED! Being with them 1 day out from the show, during the final sprint of the prep, has also been a priviledge! Ok, so it seems that the contest placing is a major concern here  So here are my thoughts on the subject! Let me first say that i'll be completely honest about what I think, Randy is a friend, and that's why I know I dont need to embellish the truth! To give you an idea of the judging criterias, Ms A, Ms B and Ms C were competing against each other in the Woman Bodybuiding Master divition and the woman bodybuilding open… the results? Master 1- Ms A 2- Ms B 3 Ms C Open 1- Ms C 2- Ms A 3- Ms B As my fellow Canadian friends would say: HEIN?  As far as Randy goes, I had him in 2nd in the Novice and in the Open (No lower than 3 in both categories). Randy was also in all honesty the best poser on stage… and one of those with the best proportions! I've been surprisingly impressed by him! BRAVO! And the rest of the show? I cant say that it has been run very well… it sometimes lacked professionnalism… but one thing is for sure, I dont agree that the caliber was so-so… in fact the 1st place winners of the open short, medium and tall were very, veeeeery competitive! That was a long post, but what is truly important to know is that both Randy and Jen were in awesome shape… and seeing them on stage has been GREEEEAT! You guys are the BEST! Thanks Mo. I appreciate everything! |
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Post by RUBICON19 on Jul 30, 2007 21:44:53 GMT -5
OKay guys. I think its time to squash this thread!
I am moving on!
I plan to compete in the NC Clash on Oct 20th. I dont expect much. It is a non tested show. One thing I do expect is to beat my previous condition by far!
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Post by Hoopie on Jul 30, 2007 22:24:10 GMT -5
OKay guys. I think its time to squash this thread! I am moving on! I plan to compete in the NC Clash on Oct 20th. I dont expect much. It is a non tested show. One thing I do expect is to beat my previous condition by far! I disagree Rubes on the dont expect much comment. YOu know what you have to do and i believe you WILL do it and do it better this time. Not saying you didnt do it right the first time by any means. However you said you want to be better conditioned and I know you have the HEART and drive to do. Best of luck to you and as always i wil be watching the entire step of the way. As for me i seem to be struggleing right now but that is another story... HIT AND HIT IT HARD BUDDY!!!!!! |
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Post by masterschamp on Jul 30, 2007 23:17:37 GMT -5
This is exactly what I'm talking about...Randy..you show me where I said YOU weren't hardcore enough!That was a GENERAL staement refferring to the countless number of guys I have seen over the years who could have put much more into their training...I missed the part where I wrote "Randy this means you!" WTF!! My whole point was fairly or not, you got placed fourth...learn from it and move on.I even said I would not have judged the contest as the judges did...again all I was saying is that you need to bring up your conditioning. And NO..... they would NOT have placed in the last two shows I did. That's just a fact! These judges may have been looking at conditioning only...I really can't say...but you have to remember that in bodybuilding bigger doesn't always mean better either. Again... I repeatedly said your potential far exceeds what I saw in the guys who placed ahead of you..... to reach that potential all you have to do is bring up your conditioning. BTW... I would not have even mentioned stepping up a level in terms of competition if I didn't think you had the ability to do well....somebody explain to me how that is a slap in the face? Like I said earlier I'm done here for awhile.........maybe for good.........The VERY FIRST freakin thing Eric and I talked about after my two shows that I WON were what areas I need to improve on. That's two of the things I respect most about Eric..............NO BS and honesty. I won and I APPRECIATED hearing what areas I NEED TO IMPROVE ON......and accepted what was said with the determination to bring those areas up. Maybe I got it wrong......let's leave it at this:
Everyone who competes here should finish first every show and if you don't the judges fu*ked up. Nobody here needs to work on anything cause everybody here has the perfect combination of everything. And there is no way anyone here could possibly work harder than they are right now....hope that makes some of you feel better.
Keith
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Post by oldnavy on Jul 30, 2007 23:56:12 GMT -5
This is exactly what I'm talking about...Randy..you show me where I said YOU weren't hardcore enough!That was a GENERAL staement refferring to the countless number of guys I have seen over the years who could have put much more into their training...I missed the part where I wrote "Randy this means you!" WTF!! My whole point was fairly or not, you got placed fourth...learn from it and move on.I even said I would not have judged the contest as the judges did...again all I was saying is that you need to bring up your conditioning. And NO..... they would NOT have placed in the last two shows I did. That's just a fact! These judges may have been looking at conditioning only...I really can't say...but you have to remember that in bodybuilding bigger doesn't always mean better either. Again... I repeatedly said your potential far exceeds what I saw in the guys who placed ahead of you..... to reach that potential all you have to do is bring up your conditioning. BTW... I would not have even mentioned stepping up a level in terms of competition if I didn't think you had the ability to do well....somebody explain to me how that is a slap in the face? Like I said earlier I'm done here for awhile.........maybe for good.........The VERY FIRST freakin thing Eric and I talked about after my two shows that I WON were what areas I need to improve on. That's two of the things I respect most about Eric..............NO BS and honesty. I won and I APPRECIATED hearing what areas I NEED TO IMPROVE ON......and accepted what was said with the determination to bring those areas up. Maybe I got it wrong......let's leave it at this: Everyone who competes here should finish first every show and if you don't the judges FY*ked up. Nobody here needs to work on anything cause everybody here has the perfect combination of everything. And there is no way anyone here could possibly work harder than they are right now....hope that makes some of you feel better. Keith Keith: I think you ought to lighten up, Man. You have had a bit of success on the stage, and for that, you have been and should be congratulated. However, that said, each of us must pursue our goals in our own way, without judgment from others who might do things differently. Each federation is different. And each contest in each federation is different. Judging is subjective at best. I have watched NPC judges, whom I think of as "turtle backs," because that's what they look like from behind, when they are sitting at the judge's table, looking up at other large men and passing judgment, based upon their experience as a NPC competitor and NPC judge. I have competed in the NPC, OCB, NGA, SNBF, FAME and the IDFA. I have won and not won in each of these federations. I have felt fairly judged and unfairly judged at these same contests. That's the nature what we have to contend with. It's the same in ice skating and free style skiing. If you want to play the game, you take the judging and hope for the best. Some judges look for muscle, some for symmetry, some for posing and some for conditioning. That's why one judge can place a man 7th and the judge sitting next to him place the same man 2nd. That happens in tested and non-tested shows. That happened to me once. And, there is no way a 63 year-old Bantam Weight should have beaten three men in their 20's at a NPC National Qualifier. But one did. Me. At that same NPC show, I won the Men's Master 60+ title. Who would have known? Randy may have suffered a bad call. It happens. He has a right to be disappointed and a little pissed. I'm a little pissed about what happened to me at my last show on June 30. And, like me, Randy will think about it and like me, will do something about it so it won't happen again...and it still might. Again, that's the nature of what we contend with. Keith, good luck to you in your next show, to Randy in his next show and to me in my next show...an NPC State Championship in less than three weeks. |
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Post by Hoopie on Jul 31, 2007 0:43:10 GMT -5
I think we all need a box of ho-ho's
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Post by masterschamp on Jul 31, 2007 0:52:16 GMT -5
Scott........The truth.......I could give a flying fu*k about what anyone has to say to me regarding my contest placings. I don't do this for cogratulations, notoriety, or a pat on the back.
Am I pissed....you better fu*king believe it. I don't take it very well when someone puts words in my mouth or quotes me inaccurately, then gets defensive aboout what I said. I NEVER have complained about any decison that has ever come my way...not just in bodybuilding, but in any athletic endeavor from Pee wee football all the way through the major college level. More importantly, because of the way I was raised I approach LIFE in the same way.......I have a son who was born with CP...some of yo know that....how gutless it would have been for me to complain about that...yet many would...feeling sorry for themselves!!!........my SON doesn't even complain about his condition...what a remarkable boy who has blessed me with the honor of being his father!! And someone is going to complain about a placing in a contest!!!My father raised his boys to be men..ESPECIALLY when things did not go our way...Have I been disappointed ...Hell yes. Would complaining have changed anything....hell no! I have been wrongly accused by some on this board of things that I do not do...... Here's a good one...I have even been called a "long term heavy steroid user" ( all 166 pounds of me!), by a JUDGE in e-mails to OTHER PEOPLE who,unknown to him, sent me copies of the e-mails. This freakin judge has NO fu*kIN idea of what I do or don't do, but has the balls to accuse me of that and THEN say it behind my back to others in e-mails!! This is a JUDGE who is supposed to be totally unbiased and objective and he is SLANDERING me behind my back! And he is NOT an NPC judge....I can't complain about the way the NPC judges have ever treated me. And you've got people who are complaining about a placing and all bent out of shape over advice that was offered to make them better!? C'mon!!...give me a freakin break..Why haven't I mentioned this before or brought it up to the attention of the governing body he judges for ?...........because IT WOULD NOT CHANGE ANYTHING...LikeI said earlier...move on. Besides....that is something that I could only deal with "properly" if I actually were to meet the individual face to face.... I don't forget these things...there is a place and a time for everything.............I still would like that "opportunity" one day!
My anger over this has NOTHING to do with what or how anyone chooses to pursue their goals in bodybuilding. But don't ever misquote me, put words in my mouth or twist what I say to suit your needs.
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Post by RUBICON19 on Jul 31, 2007 6:52:59 GMT -5
Keith. Dont know what you are soo pissed about. If you look back you will see that you are missing the point completely. I agree " I NEED MORE CONDITIONING" Okay we got that. I think I may have even opened with that. No argument there. The problem is this is not something that I NEEDED to place higher in this particular show. You say the guys that placed ahead of me would not have even come close at your show. Ahhhhhh, so where does this leave me? In the parking lot? I was not asking what I need to do for an NPC show or even this show! I was stating that I got screwed as far as placement goes. THAT IS OBVIOUS! Even to you! I can take the constructive crticism any day. You just didnt put it in the right text or the right thread for that matter. maybe if you read this over again you can see that. Maybe you dont care too. Believe me I know what I need to change in the future and I dont main you telling me these things. Understand. I hate when everyone on boards tell's everyone else they are doing great when things need work. I like the honesty. Just wasnt what this thread was about! Sorry this is bothering you so much, but.........  |
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Post by masterschamp on Jul 31, 2007 7:19:36 GMT -5
You complained about your placement...I was trying to give an explanation of why you might have placed where you did. The judges put you fourth, not me. If I were judging I might have seen it differently...but I wasn't judging, was I? Who the hell are you to say what I was thinking when I wrote what I did....quit being so self-righteous!! You know...... maybe YOU were wrong in the way you interpreted what I wrote. But you seem like you would never be able to admit you could be wrong about anything...how old are you..25?.... something like that...man you sure know everything for someone so young! Sorry RANDY...that's EXACTLY how I feel and that won't change. Quit being so defensive and reading into things that aren't said......I said exactly what I meant....if YOU didn't understand what I meant...that's your problem...you could have shot me a PM if you needed clarification.....don't ever tell me what I'm thinking...you don't have a freakin clue...apparently!
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Post by GerryT on Jul 31, 2007 8:35:08 GMT -5
Hey, guys!! You are all tremendous members here and have accomplished a lot. Could we please call a truce?? I have huge respect for all of you and think that some comments here were taken out of context and misunderstood.
Constructive criticism can only help a competitior going forward. I always believed in honesty with anyone I worked with. False praise is a disservice. If said in the spirit of honesty and good will and not as a personal attack, what is wrong with that?
Please let's shake on this and move on. I think the world of all of you. I know Tim would be very distressed by all of this! If there are any personal issues to address, please do it through PM or e mail. Thanks very much!!
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So here are my thoughts on the subject! Let me first say that i'll be completely honest about what I think, Randy is a friend, and that's why I know I dont need to embellish the truth! To give you an idea of the judging criterias, Ms A, Ms B and Ms C were competing against each other in the Woman Bodybuiding Master divition and the woman bodybuilding open… the results? 
