i need help with bulking

[eeneich]

i read troys article... awsome article. well its ben a month now i have been eating a lot... becuase id like to pack on size. after spending months dieting and getting my abs out... its gone now. but whatever... i need more muscle... i thought i didnt. im eating a lot of peanut butter and jelly... milk... burgers... tacos... whatever really. so is the deal that if i want to add size on my arms chest or wherver... i have to take in a lot of calories? should i buy something like n large? im 165 at 5'8 height... when i had my abs out i was at 153. should i buy n large? or should i just contiue eating a lot... i just dont wanna gain too much weight in fat... just in muscle

[Maximum6]

if you want to gain muscle and no fat..stop eating all that junk..though..burgers are okay..as long as it is lean.

Keep it clean..and you won't gain that much fat . as the Muscled gained is probably greater than fat gain..and more muscle you have the more you have to eat to maintain it....

[ChrisC]

Remember that to grow you need to consume more calories than you burn. You need to try and keep those calories relatively clean. That's all i'll say on the nutrition side since Tim and Troy are better versed in that area.

If you are currently adding quality mass, and by that i mean more muscle than fat, then adding an mrp like n-large isn't necessary.

so is the deal that if i want to add size on my arms chest or wherver...

Don't neglect other bodyparts! Actually the quickest way to get big arms is to get big all over.

You will rarely see someone with big arms who doesn't have a big back and legs to go with them.

the body responds to overall training. Big exercises like squats and deadlifts stimulate growth and have been shown to increase levels of gh in the body. This helps you grow every where. Think about this - have you ever seen someone squat over 500lbs who doesn't have pretty big arms?

to borrow from Randall Strossen, if you increase your squat by 100lbs and add 15lbs of muscle, your arms will likely be at least an inch bigger, even if you don't do much arm work.

This is why its frustrating when you see people in gyms who want big arms but who spend all their time doing curls. Often they will never go near the squat rack, which is ironic since that would help them increase their arm size much quicker than endless sets of curls.

Keep in mind that people who only work arms and chest look pretty ridiculous. The best description i have heard is "disco bodybuilder". ;D

[Maximum6]

Chris..i never knew that...i thought Squats and Deadlifts were just what you guys called Mass building exercise...and never thought about helping my growth in my arms and other bodyparts besides muscles worked during the squats and deadlifts...

Hmm..now i guess i wouldn't be fustrated because i can't curl in those reps.....

[ChrisC]

Max:

I can't find a reference for it right now, but yeah, that's the basic idea.

That's why we keep telling you to lift big and squat and dl. Squats don't just build the legs they help you grow all over. You don't see too many people doing them because they are a tough exercise, but the results are worth it.

Think about olympic lifters, many of those guys don't even do any direct arm work yet they all have big, well developed arms.

[Maximum6]

so what does Curls do for your arms? makes them look cut?

[ChrisC]

Max:

I'm not saying don't do any arm work and i'm not saying you cannot build arms without squats.

I just mean that you will grow much quicker if you focus on the big exercises. In other words, everything else remaining constant, someone who does heavy squats and arm work will likely have bigger arms (and legs, back, etc.) than someone who only does arm work.

[eeneich]

Posted by: Maximum6 Posted on: Today at 10:04:01
if you want to gain muscle and no fat..stop eating all that junk..though..burgers are okay..as long as it is lean.

Keep it clean..and you won't gain that much fat . as the Muscled gained is probably greater than fat gain..and more muscle you have the more you have to eat to maintain it....
Posted by: ChrisC Posted on: Today at 10:29:39
Remember that to grow you need to consume more calories than you burn. You need to try and keep those calories relatively clean. That's all i'll say on the nutrition side since Tim and Troy are better versed in that area.

i dont get how that is possible though. how does one increase calorie intake without getting fat. is it like eating foods that have a lot of calories... but little fat and carbs? like meat and chicken?

[Maximum6]

Like tim said to me once....eat the same as you were cutting..only increase your portions

increase 500cals above maintenace by eating the same food only more of it. But of course..I eat out..and stuff my self...so my calories is a bit beyond 500 above maintenace. Dirty food is never bulking or cutting food.
Just remember...to eat foods that are clean...stuff that is natural. Oatmeal, Chicken, Beef, vegetables,etc.

Avoid processed as much as possible...but i'm sure you know that already. You're going to get fat if you don't keep it clean . And when I say fat..I mean you gain more fat than you gain muscle...and that is not bulking.

Generally bulking is building more muscle tissue with CLEAN calories,....the extra calories is suppose to go towards building tissue of muscle..but some of it might go to being fat...because you're not using it up.

So Do HIIT, lift hard, eat big and clean,and you should have Muscle gain > Fat gain. Which would make cutting alot less hectic..when you do start again.

[eeneich]

thanks for the quick response max... so what would happen if i took some n large 2? doesnt that thing have a lot of calories? rather than me spending so much money on clean foods and such (and especially if i have to eat more of it)... should i try some n large... wouldnt that be the same as eating more but clean?

[Maximum6]

what exactly is N-large..give me a link ...

[eeneich]

www.massnutrition.com/products.cfm?cur_man=PROLAB&item=PL021

this is where it shows its nutrition facts... basically a weight gainer...
www.evitamins.com/product.asp?pid=1199

[Maximum6]

I personally wouldn't use it because

1. fructose
2. i can increase my cals through real food

Although if you can't afford that much food..i suggest adjusting your diet....Me...i simply added in more FAT...

In my morning oatmeal..i put on 1/4 cup of Flaxseeds ....!!! I also double up on my Salmon intake....I cleaned out my fridge of BEEF so yea..
Salmon and Beef are calorie dense meat. Eat More Nuts....they 're good for you. Packed with Fiber, fats, carbs, protein.

Adjust your diet a little......add nuts...as they are packed with all the calories you need.. in very little amount. and are cheap..has carbs/fat/ and protein.

Don't be afraid of fats.

I would avoid N-large if i were you ...

[eeneich]

dont worry about fats? so i can just continue my diet that im on. i eat basically whatever... some have fats in there some dont. i would think a clean bulk would not include fats or maybe just a little but a lot of calories and protein. but i guess its basically both fats and protein that helps build muscle. weill ill just continue my diet... and see how it goes... thanks for the input max.

[Maximum6]

just make sure they are good fats....

almonds, Walnuts, no peanuts....just avoid anything ROASTED...and stick with RAW NUTS.

another choice would be Flax Seeds....they are very cheep..about 1 bag is like 1 dollar...

If you don't like Fish ..i don't blame you.....but I tend to eat alot of Salmon and lots of other Seafood.
You can start eating more lean beef....they are calorie dense..

If you get them at Super walmart..they are usually the "SELECT" grade...which is the leaness grade you get..and i bought 10 bucks worth of beef..which is about 3lbs. It lasted me quite a while....

[eeneich]

yeah i hateeeee seafood... i despise it. in the supermarket i hold my nose as i walk past by that seafood place... man. but yeah ill go ahead and buy some nuts... flaxseeds... and what not. thanks max.

[Maximum6]

believe it or not...i read that 3 TBSP of flaxseed is thermogenic.!! And I take 4TBSP!! ;D Makes my oatmeal look Chunky.

[Troyster]

Eeneich, sorry for the late reply. Here are some answers to questions brought up:
- Fats - SOME fat intake is good. But, no it's not OK to just eat all the fat you want for success... for the most part, it's dead calories. You need some for proper functioning of joints, proper digestion and so on. However, NOBODY in North America is in danger of not getting enough in their diet. Even plain skinless chicken breast has fat in it. I don't eat added fats plain and simple. Some do and others, like Tim, advocate added fat intake (which is fine). But a couple TBSP of peanut butter and a TBSP or two of flax oil is plenty (and the Pam you spray to cook with).
- NLARGE, etc. Protein powders ARE NOT MAGIC. DON'T BE FOOLED BY ANY AD MY FRIEND!! Get yourself a basic and cheap protein powder that you like and that mixes well with water or milk. That's it. You can likely buy 3 tubs of it over NLARGE and you'll get three times the value (that choice is up to you). All protein powders do is give you a quick and convenient way of getting in food, that's it, no magic there... honest NONE.
- Food, in general, needs to be kept clean. I thought I was very explicit on this in the article. You can employ a cheat meal or two but the more clean building blocks of muscle you take in, the more muscle you're going to grow. BULKING DOES NOT MEAN EAT WHATEVER YOU WANT... not unless you wanna' bulk with fat... see what I mean? I presume you want to bulk with muscle and, as a result, will put on a tiny bit of fat (not the other way around -- which is what WILL happen if you just eat whatever you want). You need to KNOW what you're eating by weighing, measuring and recording -- you need to take in around 2 grams of protein per lb.
- Multi-joint exercises. Chris very nicely pointed out that the multi-joint exercises will make your entire body grow. This is true. THEY EMPLOY THE MUSCLES OF THE ENTIRE BODY. Yes, squats also employ arms. However, there's a bit more to it than that. The stress required to perform work under the squat will stimulate your body to increase mass across the entire body. Simply put, it figures it needs to in order to adapt to your squats.
- "how does one increase calorie intake without getting fat." -- You eat A LOT more food... just as Max quoted Tim as telling him. Goes along with the name "bulking" doesn't it We're saying EAT MORE, but keep it clean. You need to cheat, but do that in a meal or two. While dieting, most folks cut out dairy, most (if not all) fruit, red meats, whole eggs... while when bulking, these foods are very important. You should make sure you're getting fruits (thus fructose is GOOD), eggs, lots of dairy and some red meats. Unless you're talking "ground round" on whole wheat buns, burgers are junk food and should be used as a "cheat". Seafood is fine while dieting or bulking (obviously without the butter while dieting).
- Again, as already discussed in other threads (and as Chris pointed out above), WORK YOUR WHOLE BODY!!!!! Please, everyone, do your part... let disco stay dead ;D
Don't become a disco bodybuilder or we'll get the mod's to change your title to "Disco Stu" LOL!!

Look for a Part II on bulking, how to, later today hopefully.

Troy

[Michael]

Troyster,

In your respnse above, you refer to NLARGE for protein powder. Can you give me more info on where to find this.
Also, you indicate just getting plain protein powder, does this mean you do not see any value in those powders that add extra amino's and glut etc.., or do you just think it is just not worth the extra cost they tend to charge? Do you use any glut or branched amino's?

Thanks, and I have enjoyed learning from all the info you have added to the board.

[Troyster]

Hey Michael. I don't have a preference for any brand of protein powder. I mentioned NLarge cause that was a specific brand Eeneich asked about.

Glutamine, as a supplement, has many values. Some protein powders (most, these days) include glutamine right in the powder. There's a pretty good overview of glutamine in another thread: timwescott.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=Discuss&action=display&thread=1089855062

I have found that with a basic plain "complex" protein powder, you could triple or even quadrouple the amount you take in and it still wouldn't cost as much as some of the powders they sell which supposedly give you something like %20 better quality... that is just plain not a reasonable return for the cost. You still get "X" grams of protein per scoop. They can "gloss it up" all they want, it's still just protein powder.

There are also types of powders (i.e. egg/milk versus just milk, or whey and so on). That's personal preference... still, it's just food.

Further, I see it as nothing more than food. When I go to the grocery store to buy say... eggs, I know that the no-name (or generic) brand that costs much less than "designer eggs" holds the same food value... which would you buy? Same with protein powders.

I don't use glutamine or BCAAs but do feel they hold some value. Creatine as well. I just don't believe "creapure" is any better than the cheap stuff you buy at Costco... same difference but creapure costs a fortune. If you feel the Costco stuff isn't as good... take twice as much, that's more than the expensive brands purport is in theirs. Same with other brands like CellTech where they dump a bunch of sugar (i.e. dextrose) in and call it "special"... just a load of crap. Get some cheap creatine, put it in grape juice... BAM, you got CellTech.

T